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[fender62]

women want autonomy over there bodies, so be it...this is getting like the mad vegans, invading restaurants with placards shouting abuse. what happened to live and let live.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7520325/Stella-Creasy-MP-calls-Home-Secretary-Priti-Patel-stop-harassment-women-Walthamstow.html

[dannyk13]

If nothing else, these idiots should be charged anything the Met can dig up.Disgusting behaviour.

[wolf63]

They are trying to intimidate women at a time when they are very vulnerable.

Nobody should be forced to live their life according to someone else's sense of what is right and what is wrong.

[douglas9401]

It's the modern way though, innit.

Get a cause, get hysterical, deny everybody else an opinion because you're sent from heaven to enlighten, scream and blow whistles, move on to another cause.

If some handy lass was to be put in such a state of fear and alarm as to get her retaliation in first and lay out the odd activist that would be okay in my book.

[pixie374]

The best retaliation would be to implant these embryos in all protestors, to carry, give birth and take responsibility for. Why aren't they demanding that, if all life is sacred?

[Patsy33]

^^^^^
Good one Pixie...

[pixie374]

Thanks, patsy x although I think wolf covered it all xx

[cassa333]

When does life begin?

At conception, or first heartbeat or first breath? Or only when or if the mother deems the human life has value?

Does a half born child, with its head still in the birth canal and it’s body outside wriggling and kicking deserve to decapitated and killed?

A picture of a foetus is not something to get worked up about and if you are a pro abortionist then you should absolutely expect to see pictures of the things you are happy to be killed in the name of progress.

There seems to be more ‘outrage’ at badger culls than killing humans.

[ummmm]

UK abortion laws give an idea of when life begins.

[pixie374]

It isn't necessarily about "life", cassa. As we are perfectly happy to kill many things. Or even human life... as we turn off life support machines etc.
The question is partly, when is a foetus more important than it's mother and also, when is consciousness, which nobody is completely sure of.
If a "potential" human is the point... then I assume you are one of those standing outside abortion clinics, demanding to have one implanted? Or is this just acceptable for other people?

[dannyk13]

Cassa, info here:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/abortion/child/alive_1.shtml

[fender62]

douglas9401, exactly.. like recreational outrage, momentum, antifa, noborders uk, and all the mad vegan groups, it's chaos with another name.

[pixie374]

That doesn't really cover it, Danny entirely. All humans have a right to life. But none have the right to risk somebody else's (which always includes every pregnancy and childbirth).
Can you imagine the complication if a woman gets injured (very common) or killed (very possible) in giving birth? If it isn't her decision... who should be charged with manslaughter? The father? The courts?

[fender62]

pixie374, right to live, that a moral principle, it could be argued the mother or would be mother, has the same right not to want a baby
if by rape or child would be so disabled, life would not be life.

[pixie374]

Yes, of course. In fact, the reason makes little difference. Any child needs a willing and able mother.

[Old_Geezer]

The question is partly, when is a foetus' life more important than it's mother's desire.

[pixie374]

Not really, og. But good try :-)

[cassa333]

Not necessarily about life? There are true health of the mother reasons for abortion. And that should always be an option on the table.

But basically Yes it is about life. There is no ‘potential life’ there is only life. In most cases the mother decides to end that life.

I am not an anti abortionist. I believe in choice (probably up to about 20weeks) but not to sugar coat it. It is a life and it is murder. If you chose to murder your unborn child for what can often be no other reason than ‘I’m too stupid to properly use contraception’ or ‘my financial health is more important’ or any number of facile and inconsequential reasons then that is what you should be fully aware of and sign the paper as doing.

It is easy to say it isn’t a life, it has no value, it isn’t important, it isn’t a conscious being, it’s just like going to the dentist when you don’t care about the life inside you.

But if you are capable of killing your own inborn baby then what else are you capable of?

[Mozz71]

If all of a sudden, it was the guys who gave birth, you'd soon see a lot of male pro lifers changing their minds.

[pixie374]

It clearly isn't murder- as that is unlawful killing of another person. This is neither unlawful, or "another person".
You must know as well as I do, that for a mother to decide not to have her own child, goes against absolutely every instinct she has. And the idea that it is an easy option, is almost laughable.
I don't get what you are saying about consciousness, cassa? I presumenyiu are against the morning after pill, etc then, if it makes no difference? Will be back after work and will respond then xx

[andy-hughes]

cassa - // Does a half born child, with its head still in the birth canal and it’s body outside wriggling and kicking deserve to decapitated and killed? //

The use of emotive images and languages does not aid the veracity of your point.

And again here -

// If you chose to murder your unborn child for what can often be no other reason than ‘I’m too stupid to properly use contraception’ or ‘my financial health is more important’ or any number of facile and inconsequential reasons then that is what you should be fully aware of and sign the paper as doing. //

Yes there are some women who abort their pregnancies for what other people may consider trivial or unworthy reasons.

But who makes those decisions?

Who is qualified to decide for a stranger that her motives and reasons pass an arbitrary test set by others, that she must obey?

The only fair way for any woman to have control over her own body is for her to make the choices, and yes, some may make bad choices, but that is the price paid for the freedom of all, not the freedom of some to jump through society's hoops and get a pass to make a heart-rending decision that should be theirs and their alone.