Road Pricing Versus V E D + Fuel Duty.......

[ToraToraTora]

https://news.sky.com/story/road-pricing-sunak-eyes-40bn-tax-threat-from-electric-vehicle-drive-12133772
I think it's inevitable that we'll have to shift from VED+fuel duty to road pricing to offset the ever increasing black hole in income. Discuss.....

[Buenchico]

Good grief! I think I must be dreaming! I seem to be agreeing with TTT!
;-)

Yes, road pricing seems to be the logical way forward. (Although, of course, governments of any political colour aren't always noted for being 'logical'). A few years ago I might have said that the technology wasn't yet in place but, with all new cars sold in the UK from the middle of this year having speed limiters (reliant on GPS systems) built into them, we now seem to be part of the way there already.

[Etch]

I can't see a 'pay as you go' system that relies on technology being used - too susceptible to spoofing/disabling

[ToraToraTora]

it'll be an on board magic box like the kids have now for insurance purposes. It'll be enforced with appropriate legislation.

[Etch]

There is an incentive to the driver in having a "magic box" for "insurance purposes" - it keeps his/her motoring costs DOWN. The complete opposite applies to a "magic box" that INCREASES your motoring cost for every mile travelled.

[dave50]

Private ownership and motoring will soon become the preserve of the rich.

[ToraToraTora]

etch 11:09, so what point are you making? This wont be optional, you'll need it to drive a car and you'll get charged by the mile, time of day, type of road, location etc. Absence of the box will be flagged and prosecuted.

[ToraToraTora]

dave: "Private ownership and motoring will soon become the preserve of the rich. " - no more than it is now, they are just planning to move away from the current duty streams to ones that will work with Electric vehicles and plug the hole in finance they leave. Personally I think it's a much better way.

[Gromit]

I Agree.
Fairer too. The more you use, the more you pay.

[ToraToraTora]

Gromit, yes, that's what has always been wrong with VED, someone who uses their car for a few miles a week pays the same as someone doing 30k a year, wrong!

[Etch]

There already are devices to disable or spoof GPS trackers. Even if they wouldn't do the trick with future systems I'm pretty sure that, given the huge potential demand, it is perfectly possible to produce a 'bit of kit' that will do.

[Etch]

Don't get me wrong - I'm all in favour of charging drivers according to how much distance they have travelled. I just don't see a 'technology based' system as the method of achieving that.

[Gromit]

UK car sales/production in 2021 were the lowest for 40 years. So the hole in the Chancellor’s coffers is getting larger.

[ToraToraTora]

Etch, no doubt there will be devices but and as with anything there are ways around and when caught they get prosecuted that's all society can do with law breakers. The vast majority won't try and spoof it and risk prosecution. It'll be added to the MOT for example.

[ToraToraTora]

etch: " I just don't see a 'technology based' system as the method of achieving that. " - what's the alternative?

[Gromit]

Maybe we can now cut the £11Billion we annually spend on roads in the UK ?

[Etch]

ToraToraTora - how about a system, similar to that used for electricity and gas usage, where monthly odometer readings are submitted by the driver, or even, if the car owner wishes, submitted automatically by a 'smart odometer'? Could be spoofed by disconnecting the speedo I suppose, but a lot simpler to implement.

[bhg481]

There is no reason why all vehicles should be charged in the same way. The new system could be introduced for new vehicles only which will have the GPS-controlled speed limiters installed. As a mischievous comment, French-built cars could be charged at a higher rate to give Macron a poke in the eye.

[ToraToraTora]

etch but that is a technology solution, far too complex to implement one both administratively and technologically and much easier to spoof.

[Etch]

Well, with Smart motorways put on hold, their planning and design teams are probably looking around for something else to get stuck into. I'm sure everything will be just fine - not!

[youngmafbog]

It is of course inevitable and anyone who bought a leccy car thinking they were not going to be paying some sort of tax was/is a fool.

It wont just be per mile I suspect. With smart metering it should be possible to tell whether a car is plugged in, and then up the price for the seller and HMRC.

Unfortunately I suspect Dave is correct, with the millions being spent on bicycle lanes and this green Government does seem to have an anti car policy it is inevitable that private transport (apart from your bike for the pedantic) will decrease.

//no more than it is now, they are just planning to move away from the current duty streams//

And you honestly think it will be a one for one swap either with the current Green incumbent or any future Government? No, they will force the poor off the road to make way for more room for their V8 Range Rovers. Do as I say not as I do will become the norm now.