Sir Keir Starmer Under, Fresh...
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Taliban torture and then shoot in the head, 20 year old.
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http://www.dailymail....murdered-Taliban.html
I am absolutely disgusted that there are some on this site who can't wait to condemn our soldiers if they happen to step out of line, or injure a Afghan civilian (if there is such a thing) and yet they are not equally ready to condemn these murderous cowardly savages who could commit a crime such as this.
Here we have a young boy of only 20 years, who must have endured many hours of excruciating torture and then finally shot several times in the head, what that poor lad must have endured, is too frightening to contemplate, and I would not condemn his colleagues if they were to capture one of these murderous scum and carry out the same punishment on him.
But then if this were to happen, the culprits would face a court-martial and a very long jail sentence, so much for the lax military justice that some on this site refer to.
RIP Scott McLaren.
I am absolutely disgusted that there are some on this site who can't wait to condemn our soldiers if they happen to step out of line, or injure a Afghan civilian (if there is such a thing) and yet they are not equally ready to condemn these murderous cowardly savages who could commit a crime such as this.
Here we have a young boy of only 20 years, who must have endured many hours of excruciating torture and then finally shot several times in the head, what that poor lad must have endured, is too frightening to contemplate, and I would not condemn his colleagues if they were to capture one of these murderous scum and carry out the same punishment on him.
But then if this were to happen, the culprits would face a court-martial and a very long jail sentence, so much for the lax military justice that some on this site refer to.
RIP Scott McLaren.
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OMG....a soldier was condemned for a stabbing a 10 year old boy. Because he was condemned for his actions you think that people will now defend the actions of the Taliban.
You're unbelievable.
<or injure a Afghan civilian (if there is such a thing) > Of course there is such a thing!!!
<Here we have a young boy of only 20 years> No we don't. He is an adult.
You're unbelievable.
<or injure a Afghan civilian (if there is such a thing) > Of course there is such a thing!!!
<Here we have a young boy of only 20 years> No we don't. He is an adult.
AOG, nobody on this site is unwilling to condemn torture or murder - especially not by the Taliban. You've misinterpreted (dare I say wilfully?) what they're saying. The difference is that they (presumably) feel that instances of western soldiers mistreating people deserve attention - and I can't say I disagree with them. It's unhealthy and damaging to truth to pretend that our troops are utopian knights-in-shining-armour who can do no wrong, or to let people in authority use the public's perfectly legitimate/valid feelings of patriotism to misdirect and mask things we ought to know about if we care about being politically informed. Nobody is saying that events like this are unimportant.
I don't have oodles of time, so if people will forgive me I'll let others elaborate (as I'm sure they will).
Last thing though, I'd say your skepticism that there is any such thing as an Afghan civilian is a little disturbing.
I don't have oodles of time, so if people will forgive me I'll let others elaborate (as I'm sure they will).
Last thing though, I'd say your skepticism that there is any such thing as an Afghan civilian is a little disturbing.
to anotheoldgit :
Your post is an offensive, wilful misunderstanding of my position - which for the avoidance of any doubt is :
1. We should not be fighting pseudo-colonial wars in Afghanistan (or enywhere else for that matter)
2. The gung-ho politicians (of any party) who involve us in this madness are the real 'scum'
3. However repellent I find the concept of Britain acting as the USA's sidekick in its self-assumed role of 'global policeman', I support our armed forces 100% in carrying out the difficult/impossible tasks they have been given - but expect them to behave correctly and be punished if they do not
4. The Taliban (and similar organsiations) are broadly composed of misguided young men who have been manipulated by demagogic leaders - who are using/subverting religion as an excuse to pursue their own lust for power and control. The atrocities carried out by the Taliban, against their own people as well as NATO forces, are a vile insult to humanity and I would hope/expect to see the perpetrators (and the leaders who orchestrate them) brought to justice.
5.We are fighting a war and, as JtH says, both sides will attempt to kill 'the enemy' - that, to be brutally honest, is what war is about.
I can see nothing in the above which in any way indicates a support for the Taliban or suggests that I would not utterly condemn the torture of a British soldier - I am very angry that you should attempt to smear me (and others) in this unpleasant way.
Your post is an offensive, wilful misunderstanding of my position - which for the avoidance of any doubt is :
1. We should not be fighting pseudo-colonial wars in Afghanistan (or enywhere else for that matter)
2. The gung-ho politicians (of any party) who involve us in this madness are the real 'scum'
3. However repellent I find the concept of Britain acting as the USA's sidekick in its self-assumed role of 'global policeman', I support our armed forces 100% in carrying out the difficult/impossible tasks they have been given - but expect them to behave correctly and be punished if they do not
4. The Taliban (and similar organsiations) are broadly composed of misguided young men who have been manipulated by demagogic leaders - who are using/subverting religion as an excuse to pursue their own lust for power and control. The atrocities carried out by the Taliban, against their own people as well as NATO forces, are a vile insult to humanity and I would hope/expect to see the perpetrators (and the leaders who orchestrate them) brought to justice.
5.We are fighting a war and, as JtH says, both sides will attempt to kill 'the enemy' - that, to be brutally honest, is what war is about.
I can see nothing in the above which in any way indicates a support for the Taliban or suggests that I would not utterly condemn the torture of a British soldier - I am very angry that you should attempt to smear me (and others) in this unpleasant way.
Kromovaracun
/// Last thing though, I'd say your skepticism that there is any such thing as an Afghan civilian is a little disturbing. ///
And you would be able to recognise one would you?
Say you found yourself out there and you came face to face with a group of Afghans, I suppose you would be able to know if they were 'civilians' or murderous Taliban?
No I think at this time it would be you who would once again find it a 'little disturbing'.
/// Last thing though, I'd say your skepticism that there is any such thing as an Afghan civilian is a little disturbing. ///
And you would be able to recognise one would you?
Say you found yourself out there and you came face to face with a group of Afghans, I suppose you would be able to know if they were 'civilians' or murderous Taliban?
No I think at this time it would be you who would once again find it a 'little disturbing'.
Obviously I have touched on or two bare nerves.
But notice that I never particularly named anyone, but they soon took the bait and came from out of the depths.
In fact rather than show sympathy and compassion for this young man and repulsion for what he had to endure in the hands of those animals, one poster could only post a 'tit for tat' example, to somehow excuse them.
That is what I call disgusting.
But notice that I never particularly named anyone, but they soon took the bait and came from out of the depths.
In fact rather than show sympathy and compassion for this young man and repulsion for what he had to endure in the hands of those animals, one poster could only post a 'tit for tat' example, to somehow excuse them.
That is what I call disgusting.
jno
The point of my post was although this report had been widely reported by all sections of the media, no one had entered a thread on AnswerBank, condemning our enemy.
Yet on the other hand, had it had been a negative story regarding our troops, certain persons would have been queuing up to voice their indignation.
It would be so refreshing to witness a little support for our troops, regardless of the politics of why they have to be out there.
All one seems to hear on here are sarcastic and abusive remarks such as reference to "our brave boys and girls" and "they are just academic drop-outs".
The point of my post was although this report had been widely reported by all sections of the media, no one had entered a thread on AnswerBank, condemning our enemy.
Yet on the other hand, had it had been a negative story regarding our troops, certain persons would have been queuing up to voice their indignation.
It would be so refreshing to witness a little support for our troops, regardless of the politics of why they have to be out there.
All one seems to hear on here are sarcastic and abusive remarks such as reference to "our brave boys and girls" and "they are just academic drop-outs".
"Say you found yourself out there and you came face to face with a group of Afghans, I suppose you would be able to know if they were 'civilians' or murderous Taliban? "
No, of course not. The Taliban don't wear uniforms - it's a tactic with a long history.
But that isn't what you said. You openly wondered 'if there is such a thing' as an Afghan civilian - which is a completely different assertion altogether.
No, of course not. The Taliban don't wear uniforms - it's a tactic with a long history.
But that isn't what you said. You openly wondered 'if there is such a thing' as an Afghan civilian - which is a completely different assertion altogether.
One would always feel desperately sorry for any serviceman or woman killed in the line of duty, and for their families at home grieving. But it is their job and they aren't conscripts, but have signed on the dotted line, so know the pit falls of their work. I have little sympathy for the Taliban, but do for the ordinary Afghani, who i am sure plays no part in this war, but is caught up in the middle. The sooner our troops are home the better.
AOG - my response to your post has been eloquently expressed by others in advance - particularly Kromovaracun and sunny-dave.
I am one who has previously posted my dislike of terms such as 'our boys and girls' to desecrible professional adult soldiers, and I continue to assert that such dewy-eyed romanticism of people who are fighting an unjust war is inappropriate.
But to equate that view with any shred of support or sympathy for the Taliban is grossly offensive, and simply provoactive - an approach for which you have been upbraided previously by the Editor.
No, I have not posted to condemn the Taliban, or to express my horror and disgust at this young man's terrible death - but i haven't posted to say that the sun has risen this morning, or that gravity is still working.
Some things are so obvious as to not need a post on here to be assumed as a natural aceptance of an obvious viewpoint.
So stand easy AOG, there is no need to heap disdain on your fellow posters from the moral high ground you love occupy, we are all with you in this - we just don't feel a need to tell each other about it.
I am one who has previously posted my dislike of terms such as 'our boys and girls' to desecrible professional adult soldiers, and I continue to assert that such dewy-eyed romanticism of people who are fighting an unjust war is inappropriate.
But to equate that view with any shred of support or sympathy for the Taliban is grossly offensive, and simply provoactive - an approach for which you have been upbraided previously by the Editor.
No, I have not posted to condemn the Taliban, or to express my horror and disgust at this young man's terrible death - but i haven't posted to say that the sun has risen this morning, or that gravity is still working.
Some things are so obvious as to not need a post on here to be assumed as a natural aceptance of an obvious viewpoint.
So stand easy AOG, there is no need to heap disdain on your fellow posters from the moral high ground you love occupy, we are all with you in this - we just don't feel a need to tell each other about it.
Referring to the detail of your post AOG, Scott McLaren was not a 'young boy', he was a grown man and a professional soldier who joined up knowing what was likely to be involved in his career choice. It in no way excuses or condones what happened to him, but the notion that he was some poor wee mite who was pounced upon as he made his way thourhg Afghanistan is ludicrous, and does not servie his memory well.
"I would not condemn his colleagues if they were to capture one of these murderous scum and carry out the same punishment on him."
I would, because mindless vigilantism simply sets the Allied Forces into a vicious circle of tit for tat attrocities, which cannot be justified under any circumstances.
It is imoral to send a fighting force into another country in order to enforce a democracy on the people - however misguided such a notion may be - and then resort to the tactics of its opressors simply because revenge makes people feel better.
"I would not condemn his colleagues if they were to capture one of these murderous scum and carry out the same punishment on him."
I would, because mindless vigilantism simply sets the Allied Forces into a vicious circle of tit for tat attrocities, which cannot be justified under any circumstances.
It is imoral to send a fighting force into another country in order to enforce a democracy on the people - however misguided such a notion may be - and then resort to the tactics of its opressors simply because revenge makes people feel better.
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