ChatterBank5 mins ago
Never send an amateur ....
103 Answers
to do a professional's job!
http://
I'm off to Derby tonight to interview Paul, and to review his show for Acoustic Magazine
Must listen out for that Ace Frehley classic .....!!!!!
http://
I'm off to Derby tonight to interview Paul, and to review his show for Acoustic Magazine
Must listen out for that Ace Frehley classic .....!!!!!
Answers
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This thread is getting sillier by the minute.Andy, your argument against ' amateur' writers taking money from professionals is like saying that amateur artists shouldn't paint in case the public prefer their work to say Damian Hurst. It's a ludicrous argument and one which looks like a lorry full of sour grapes.
On a slightly different note, my daughter wants to be a professional photographer. Her then step father was in a quite high profile band in Germany and gave her AAA pit passes as their photographer for any gigs / festivals she wanted. She met lots of people and networked intelligently. This enabled her to photograph not only them but anyone else on the festival bill and finally at festivals where they are not even playing. She has sold several photos and used the rest in her portfolio to gain work doing shots for bands and alternative clothing labels. Was that wrong of her? Or her step father? She was just a kid with a camera, an amateur, so according to you ought not to have been given the pass lest she 'take work from professionals'- but oh dear, she SOLD some photos, so does that now make it alright? Or not?
On a slightly different note, my daughter wants to be a professional photographer. Her then step father was in a quite high profile band in Germany and gave her AAA pit passes as their photographer for any gigs / festivals she wanted. She met lots of people and networked intelligently. This enabled her to photograph not only them but anyone else on the festival bill and finally at festivals where they are not even playing. She has sold several photos and used the rest in her portfolio to gain work doing shots for bands and alternative clothing labels. Was that wrong of her? Or her step father? She was just a kid with a camera, an amateur, so according to you ought not to have been given the pass lest she 'take work from professionals'- but oh dear, she SOLD some photos, so does that now make it alright? Or not?
NOX - I am sorry that you feel that the thread is getting sillier.
Your comparison of artists is not valid - amateru artists do not as a rule post their work oin the Internet, and then have people download it in prefernce to a work of art which they would pay for - that is siimply not a workable example.
Your daughter's route into professional photography is absolutely standard, and no-one would have any argument against it.
My point is not against anyone posting writing on the net for free - that is one of the great pleasures of the interet, whcih is why we are all on here, after all.
My beef is that I know of at least four national music magazines, distributed through WH Smith and other retail outlets, who use unpaid writers to furnish them with copy.
This leads to an overall reduction in writing standards, coupled with a seriously high turn-over of contributors, because writing is hard work, and yiou have to be a serious enthusiast to put in the time and effort over a long period of time for no reward other than 'the love of the music'.
My argument against this is simple - if a national magazine is being published -with the work of unpaid writers - someone is making money somewhere, and that is takling what should be paid opportuinities away from people who rely on writing for their living.
I understand if this seems trivial to you - but if you were a writer, then maybe your stance would be different.
Imagine if someone told you that your services for your employment were no longer needed because someone - not as good, or experienced, or commited, or long-term - as you, was going to do your job for the love of it, and would not require payment. I suggest you would be somewhat less sanguine about the situation if it personally affected you in that way.
Your comparison of artists is not valid - amateru artists do not as a rule post their work oin the Internet, and then have people download it in prefernce to a work of art which they would pay for - that is siimply not a workable example.
Your daughter's route into professional photography is absolutely standard, and no-one would have any argument against it.
My point is not against anyone posting writing on the net for free - that is one of the great pleasures of the interet, whcih is why we are all on here, after all.
My beef is that I know of at least four national music magazines, distributed through WH Smith and other retail outlets, who use unpaid writers to furnish them with copy.
This leads to an overall reduction in writing standards, coupled with a seriously high turn-over of contributors, because writing is hard work, and yiou have to be a serious enthusiast to put in the time and effort over a long period of time for no reward other than 'the love of the music'.
My argument against this is simple - if a national magazine is being published -with the work of unpaid writers - someone is making money somewhere, and that is takling what should be paid opportuinities away from people who rely on writing for their living.
I understand if this seems trivial to you - but if you were a writer, then maybe your stance would be different.
Imagine if someone told you that your services for your employment were no longer needed because someone - not as good, or experienced, or commited, or long-term - as you, was going to do your job for the love of it, and would not require payment. I suggest you would be somewhat less sanguine about the situation if it personally affected you in that way.
Imagine if someone told you that your services for your employment were no longer needed because someone - not as good, or experienced, or commited, or long-term - as you, was going to do your job for the love of it,
This happens all the time, andy.
Sheffield steel workers, miners from up and down the country .........They were told exactly this.
Sorry but workers from China are prepared to produce steel and coal at a fraction of what you do........ you are the weakest link...goodbye.
It is a hard fact of life. (I bet my point is not valid is it?)
This happens all the time, andy.
Sheffield steel workers, miners from up and down the country .........They were told exactly this.
Sorry but workers from China are prepared to produce steel and coal at a fraction of what you do........ you are the weakest link...goodbye.
It is a hard fact of life. (I bet my point is not valid is it?)
Mick-Talbot - I take your point but -
if someone wants to write for less than a reasonable fee - and is willing and able to work to a good standard consistently - then good luck to them. My argument is that 'free' labour devalues professionals and professional standards and makes earning a living wage as a writer more difficult.
Your compariison with steel workers and miners is not entirely valid - an industrial competitor offering a product or service at a comparable level for less money is market forces in action - the cornerstone of the Conservative ecconomic policy. No miner or steel wprker was put out of work because any Chinese equivalent kindly offered to do the same work less well without payment - that would be comparable to the situation which I stand against.
if someone wants to write for less than a reasonable fee - and is willing and able to work to a good standard consistently - then good luck to them. My argument is that 'free' labour devalues professionals and professional standards and makes earning a living wage as a writer more difficult.
Your compariison with steel workers and miners is not entirely valid - an industrial competitor offering a product or service at a comparable level for less money is market forces in action - the cornerstone of the Conservative ecconomic policy. No miner or steel wprker was put out of work because any Chinese equivalent kindly offered to do the same work less well without payment - that would be comparable to the situation which I stand against.
EvianBaby - my connection with this site started on Day One when I was approached by the then owners who were offering a site ansering questions from visitors on a variety of topics. The questions would be answered by myself (Music) and six other writers who would each write a weekly feature per week on their subject which would be posted. For this, the company contracted us, andf paid us a fee for our work.
After a period of time, the owners decided that the site could stand alone, without the feature material, and work on the format that had emerged - visitors answering each other's questions and debates on a vcariety of issues - and that is the site we have today.
Myself and the other writers had our contracts terminated - I continued to contribute as a regular visitor, and have done so from that day to this.
If the company choose to dispense with my services, no problem.
If the company replace me with someone doing a sub-standard job because they do not charge, then I have a big problem, but that was not the case.
I must reiterate my original point - which seems to be getting lost.
My argument is not with websites that print material from anyone and everyone as a labour of love. My argument is with print titles that make a profit - which they must do in order to pay their print and distribution costs - using free labour at the expense of professional writers.
Hope I am making more sense now.
After a period of time, the owners decided that the site could stand alone, without the feature material, and work on the format that had emerged - visitors answering each other's questions and debates on a vcariety of issues - and that is the site we have today.
Myself and the other writers had our contracts terminated - I continued to contribute as a regular visitor, and have done so from that day to this.
If the company choose to dispense with my services, no problem.
If the company replace me with someone doing a sub-standard job because they do not charge, then I have a big problem, but that was not the case.
I must reiterate my original point - which seems to be getting lost.
My argument is not with websites that print material from anyone and everyone as a labour of love. My argument is with print titles that make a profit - which they must do in order to pay their print and distribution costs - using free labour at the expense of professional writers.
Hope I am making more sense now.
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