Baby talk

[coggles]

Can anyone explain to me why some parents teach their children to use (usually silly) alternatives to words, when they will then have to teach them the correct one at some stage? For example: gee gee, choo choo train, moo moo? I heard a woman yesterday say 'duck duck' to her daughter. Why not just say duck?

[katejess]

Coggles, my personal favourite was "woo woo" for ambulance/police car/fire engine....I wouldn't mind, but the woman who said it was talking to me at the time...her children weren't even with us!!

[bobbobley]

Its one of the most cringe-inducing things of all about parents and their new sprogs isn't it? I guess that mostly they say those words because pronunciation is generally easier for kids learning to speak, but I agree that there is no need to actively encourage it!! If a kid can't manage to say the correct word parents should be trying to help them finally master it, rather than speaking in such an annoying manner. I can't believe they actually do it in public in front of people too; just behave like imbeciles and fools; have they no shame?? Well done coggles for such an interesting question, let me vent my spleen for a bit!

[xyzzy@bok]

Choo Choo? - the steam age is over. Today they call them clicketies. Ah diddums. :-)

[gazzawazza]

I see your point coggles, but come on, they're only kids and it's hardly going to scar them for life is it? I don't remember being taught the correct words, nobody probably does because it happens naturally as the kids get a little bit older.

Kids have a natural aptitude for learning new things so I wouldn't worry one bit about this. I admit I've been guilty of this in the past and will be again in the future with grandchildren (not yet!) without a moments hesitation.

Let them be kids and leave the PCness till they're a little bit older.

[woofgang]

According to Discworld2 the philosophy of the discworld, it is a natural part of both parent and child development to "babble" Deaf parents who sign, have been observed to "sign babble" to their hearing babies.Apparently its part of the preparation for speech. If you think about the way babies vocalise, they do tend to do so repetitively and polysyllabically (bababababam, mumumumumum) so I guesss that this is the adult way of imitating that and encouraging baby to imitate them in return....probably it should stop before age 30 though :-) Do we have a SALT out there to give a view?

[coggles]

Thanks for all your comments. Firstly gazza, I hate all the PC stuff with a passion. While I agree with the mamama, dadada etc and understand how it comes to be, it's the use of completely different words for things that gets on my nerves. I just don't see the point. However, xyzzy@bok, I think trains should be referred to as an 'alwayslate'.

[incitatus]

my folks never did this. it was always the correct term. My first word (apart from babble) was televinge ( which is a reasonable attempt I reckon) and i was probably the only child at primary school who had a penis rather than a winkie, tinkle, dingle etc. etc.

[abfandango]

Language aint what it seems. It's currency is not always words, but meaning. "choo-choo" and "train" might both represent a train, but if the phonology of the word renders it inaccessible to the child, then it's replaced by something more accessible. "choo-choo" is closer to the style of 'motherese', the language-style that parents use with infants, big inflections and repetition. Mixing different words for the same thing during development, and likewise failing to correct every single mistake are absolutely fab for cognitive development, since they provide the raw materials the developing networks need to learn generalization etc. Thus, many obviously different children, like Down Syndrome children, for example, often grow up with poor generalization skills. This has been attributed to being possibly caused by over-correction by parents (they see the disability and think it causes the error, whereas normally a parent would let it go).

[coggles]

Hello inci, we are trying to teach our children in a similar fashion to your parents. It is up to parents how they teach their children things. I suppose, as long as children get answers to their many questions, it doesn't matter how they learn - who knows? Abfab, I understand what you mean about over-correcting. My nephew is mentally and physically disabled. He can say a few words but mostly he signs. When he is tired, he may sign 'please' when we know he means 'thank you'. We don't tell him he is wrong and correct him, we are just happy he has good manners.

[Kit]

Isn't childhood the time for being silly though? We tickle our kids to play with their bodies, tell them stories to play with their imaginations, so why not play with words and sounds as well? It gives me a chance to play as well - I sometimes get fed up with being a grown-up, and surreal conversations with my nearly 3 year old are good fun...

[coggles]

I agree with you kit about childhood being fun. Our eldest, who is 4, has a vivid imagination and makes up lots of stories. We play games, tickle and giggle, get muddy and make things. We just use 'grown up' words to describe things.

[gazzawazza]

Do you tell them there's really no Father Christmas as well? I personally cringe when I hear really young children who sound exactly like a little grown-up and see their parents looking pleased as punch just because little Tristram uses all the correct words. As I said before, kids are kids and should be allowed to be kids, there's plenty of time to be serious when they get older. That's my opinion anyway!

[coggles]

We are not trying to raise them as mini adults. We have loads of fun with them. If you could see me hanging the washing out with the face painted as a cat or hear some of the stories we make up, you would see that we all have plenty of fun. They do believe in Father Christmas and the tooth fairy will be along in the next couple of years. There are fairies and pixies that live in the end of our garden too. I wouldn't dream of naming a child anything so pretentious either!!!!

[incitatus]

gazza- when i found out there was no santa i was furious with my parents, didnt speak to them for days because they had lied to me. not omitted the truth, actively lied. Is this a good example to set to anyone? The model of kids you subscribe to is less than a hundred years old and a product of the oversentimentalisation inherent in victorias reign, overlaid with the middle class delusion that childhood=happy innocence rather than amorality. Being accurate is not the same as being serious. And nothing is more serious than a child when it wants to be. What you are proposing is raising a brood that are set to be hallmark victims, or worse, buy "i like Horses" magazine.

[gazzawazza]

Well, what exactly is wrong with children liking "I like horses" magazine? They're kids, and kids, especially girls, like horses. Boys like to play with cars or fantasy figures with huge muscles and sometimes those cars or fantasy figures might be able to fly, which is the point I was making in the first place, that childhood is a time for innocence. And when they get older most of them grow out of it and become adults without feeling any bitterness or ill-feeling at all. Apart from those that had a penis it seems... Only joking...

[incitatus]

so what you are saying, gaz is that you are going to enforce your stereotypes of children onto them because then they MUST be happy. Children are not innocent, they are amoral. theres a big difference. The probem with I LIKE HORSES mag is that it is written by the kind of syrupy minded dolt who wants to reinforce all the dung with which children are now saddled. the image we have of children is more appropriate to saints than the reality of what kids are and do. they are quite cute, but never lose sight of the fact that they would stick a cat in a microwave just to see what happens unless told not to. This innocence thing is a recent invention by a bunch of people with too much time on their hands and too much religion, the edwardian middle classes. Children learn by education, and if what you want them to learn is to sing songs about horses, buy barbie dolls, send apalling verse in prepackaged cards on every hallmark holiday, go to disneyland and beleive its culture or watch Im a celebrity then fine. Personally i wouldnt.

[coggles]

Well gazza and inci, all I can say is that our eldest daughter (who has just turned 4) knows what an allen key is and how to use it. She knows because she has seen mummy build things and she 'helps' me with her toy tool kit. I didn't force her, she just shows a lot of interest in making, constructing and building things. She knows what tuning pegs are too, not because we sat her down and said she was having a music lesson. It was because mr coggles plays his guitar every night when he gets home from work and she asked what those things were at the top of the guitar. Children are like sponges. if she asks 'what, why, where, how' etc., we explain it to her with the correct words but in a simplified manner. BTW., if she becomes interested in horses when she is older and would like to read a horse mag, then she can. (After we have read it first to see what it is like). I am just dreading the day when she asks to start reading all the teen magazines!!!