The War In Ukraine

[Khandro]

'Russia’s invasion of Ukraine will cost the global economy $2.8 trillion in lost output by the end of next year—and even more if a severe winter leads to energy rationing in Europe.'

With the outlook to be a continued process of slaughter for months, maybe years to come of life (human & animal) & destruction of habitation & infrastructure at a rate not seen since WW2. Is the loss of a small region of the extreme west Donbass regions of Ukraine (plus the Crimea, which has been Russian for 300 years) worth the prolongation, & possible risks of the use of nuclear & chemical weapons ?

[barney4444]

//Well done the man who can get Putin talking reasonably//

And how do you know he won't. anyone asked him.

[naomi24]

I don't know. Have they?

[barney4444]

Do you care or should we just let it continue to escalate

[Old_Geezer]

Much much much much much more to the point is; is stealing these regions, and killing and maining to do so, worth it ?

On top of which, stopping an aggressive tyranical invading country has to be near priceless if this world and it's dominant species are ever going to be in harmony in a morally acceptable situation.

(I don't understand why, what is essentially a Russian propaganda thread, would be posted here.)

[naomi24]

Barney, if that's to me I've no idea what you're on about. Whether or not it escalates isn't my decision - or yours, presumably.

[barney4444]

To be clear I am not 'pro russain' I am 'pro finding a way to end the killing'. Surely that's something we all should be. But why do you think one section of the 'dominant species' is right and the other's are wrong.

[barney4444]

Barney, if that's to me I've no idea what you're on about. Whether or not it escalates isn't my decision - or yours, presumably.//

You made the assumption that Putin won't be prepared to talk to anyone reasonably. Just wondering if you have a hotline to him or something.

[steg]

I’m sure Ukraine would be delighted to hold talks and end the killing.. as soon as the invaders/ murderers and rapists leave their country..
they just have to leave …

[Stableford]

Assuming the aggressor has any interest in negotiation is the height is utterly naive. Someone who is prepared to sacrifice endless of his own countrymen for his personal vanity project is beyond any negotiation. The time for negotiation has passed. Russia need to get out of Ukraine- and the Russians being forced to fight and die there for the sake of Putin's pride know that better than anyone.

[Stableford]

Assuming the aggressor has any interest in negotiation is utterly naive and deluded.

[naomi24]

//You made the assumption that Putin won't be prepared to talk to anyone reasonably. Just wondering if you have a hotline to him or something. //

No, Barney, I don't have a hotline to him. Going by his actions I don't, however, consider him a reasonable human being. Do you?

[ichkeria]

Barney I’m sure you mean well but you come across as hopelessly naive in everything you say about this.

And as for “surrender and we’ll talk is a useful starting point for negotiations” (!)

There is I’m afraid no easy out here: there IS plainly a chance of a nuclear element although I believe small. But it’s a war that will end in Putin’s destruction or Ukraine’s. The stakes are that high.
If you think “negotiation” would at any time make everything nice again well I’m here to tell you it wouldn’t even were it possible.

[barney4444]

Well I meet lot's of people that I don't consider particularly reasonable human beings but if by talking to them it could end a war then I would.

[youngmafbog]

Negotiate with Putin at this stage in the game?

I have in my hand a piece of paper .....

[naomi24]

//if by talking to them it could end a war then I would. //

So would everyone else, Barney.

[youngmafbog]

Barney, you do realise that the only way negotiations can take place is if Putin agrees to remove all troops from Ukraine, and that if he does, he is finished in Russia - straight out of a window or a last cup of tea along with his all family falling out of high rises?

And you think he will talk, honestly?

[Peter Pedant]

You made the assumption that Putin won't be prepared to talk to anyone reasonably

no it is a conclusion - Feb 23 ( when dat den etc) Macron rang Putin and said dont invade, and he said he wdnt
and when Macron put down da handset, les messieurs told him he had

The Ukrainians believed him Feb 24th when CIA and MI5 told Zelensky - " he really is gonna invaaaaade" ( say 'invade' in a singy voice) - and then they did

it must a been a shock for Zelensky and his wife to hear shots and ask what is that about? They were told - those are Russians who are looking for you so they can shoot you and your family

Erdogan (Turkey) wished to be the great Peace maker - but cdnt get a word out of Putin. But E did agree to P to hinder the accession to NATO of the northern countries.....strategically advantageous to Putin and dis-advantageous to NATO and the threatened countries

threatened with Liberation of course ! or re-liberation that is!

[Peter Pedant]

We are resolved that the method of consultation shall be the method adopted to deal with any other questions that may concern our two countries, and we are determined to continue our efforts to remove possible sources of difference, and thus to contribute to assure the peace of Europe."

chamberlain

EuroDocs > History of the United Kingdom: Primary Documents > 1919 to the present > Neville Chamberlain's "Peace For Our Time" speech

[Peter Pedant]

And as for “surrender and we’ll talk is a useful starting point for negotiations” (!)

eek!

well, it worked in Japan 1945 - hem hem
and Vietnam 1953 ( after the French defeat at Dien Bien Phu )
( adv that the French troops that surrendered at Dien were foo-ed. They just didnt feed them. Most died)

well that is Jaw jaw for you after surrender

[Spicerack]

This lecture was given 7years ago. It's like he could see into the future. Warning. It'll take a whole 45m of your precious time up.