Isn't this Politically correctness Business getting a bit silly now ?

[Bazile]

Trevor Philips , the chairman of the Equality and Human Rights Commission , has condemned attempts to
' brush Christmas under the carpet ' for fear of offending other religions .

He cites for example , the scrapping of Nativity plays by some schools .
Apparently only 1 in 5 schools are putting on these plays .

For christ sake - isn't this supposed to be a Christian country - afterall dont we accomodate other religous faiths
When do you see hordes of Christians protesting about the religous celebrations of other faiths ?

Who are these whimps in these councils that are giving out these ridiculous instructions .
I think that they should be shipped off to Siberia - perhaps a spell in a stable there , will do them some good , and bring them to their senses .

[whiffey]

Britain is not a Christian country, it is secular going-on Islamic. Eid no doubt will be celebrated on 20th December.

Sign of the Times, that is all.

[Gromit]

Christian children should be encouraged to take part in nativity plays as it is a good way of teaching them the biblical message. This should be done at their place of worship. Schools are for education not worship.

We are a multi-faith country with christianity the predominant religion. I have never seen christians or muslims protesting about the others' celebrations. As Christ is a muslim prophet, I doubt that they would be offended.

The truth is, Christmas has been completely ruined by commercialism and not any interference from other faiths.
Next time you celebrate Chistmas by sending a card, you may ponder what a couple of penguins have to do with the birth of the saviour?

[sp1814]

This is an interesting one.

If you had a school that was mostly Muslim (Bradford, some parts of the East End) then they would probably opt out of putting on nativity plays).

I'd be really shocked if 80% of schools are opting out. A more sensible solution would be for the multi-faith schools to put on multiple plays. There could be a Christian celebration at Christmas, with corresponding celebrations for other faiths at other times of the year.

It seems that religious observance is much more prevalent amongst other religions anyway.

In 1849, 49% of Brits went to church each Sunday.

It's now down to approx 6%.

We're as 'Christian' as Alice Cooper.

[Gromit]

Apologies to Bazile: thread hijack

sp1814

Don't normally encorage Daily Mail reading, but try this...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles /showbiz/showbiznews.html?in_article_id=500862 &in_page_id=1773&ico=Homepage&icl=TabModule&ic c=picbox&ct=5

[sp1814]

Gromit

Many thanks.

That has made my day!!!

[ludwig]

How typical of the well known Daily Mail reading little englander Trevor Philips to come out with knee jerk 'PC gone mad' statements like this. Or maybe not, perhaps he's got a point.

Nice link Gromit - I like the new hairstyle I must say.

[Bazile]

Gromit - I note your comments - however school nativity plays have been an integral part of the primary school experience for ages now .
Why should that change , in order not to , so called ' offend ' other faiths ?

I agree that the true meaning of christmas is in danger of being lost , due to the commercialisation - however I beleive that there are still a large number of people in the country ( including non practising christians or people with christian beliefs ) to whoom the Christsian celebration is an important part of their lives .

[Booldawg]

What percentage of people need to attend church to make UK a Christian country? Possibly more than the 5% or whatever. As long as the Queen is the head of the CofE then I see UK as a Christian country. If you want to go with what the majority vote of how people spend their Sunday mornings then I guess we're a Car bootist or Garden Centarian country.

Regardless of how many people attend the church is still central to UK society in the shape of weddings, funerals and baptisims (and jumble sales ;-)

[Gromit]

Bazile

The reluctance of schools to stage nativity plays has several reasons, blaming PC is barking up the wrong tree.
- Learning time is a lot more targeted and tested, leaving little time for extra-curricular stuff like plays.
- The teachers themselves are now less likely to be practicing christians and so will not have much enthusiasm for it
- Its educational value to non-christians is minimal
- They can be disruptive and cause resentment to all pupils
- There are other high-t ech ways (less fun) of teaching about the birth of Jesus (DVDs Net etc)

Nativity plays have never been integral part of school, they have been a pleasant diversion from it. Just because it has always been done is not a good enough reason to do it. Standards, methods change.

Apart from offering some free entertainment for the parents, they are not of much benefit to the children or to the school. In the schools which have decided not to do one, it is not because they are banned by PC, it is that the school has chosen not to bother.

If there is such a demand for nativity plays, surely the local churches should step in and fill the gap. The fact that they cannot be bothered either might explain the decline in christian worship attendance.

[Supernick]

This is the start of silly season for 'PC gone mad' stories. Expect made up cr*p to be debated for the next month concerning

a. banning of Christmas lights
b. 'Winterval' replacing Christmas
c. shops not stocking 'religious' cards
d. banning of Father Christmas from shopping centres

THIS WILL ALL BE MADE UP BY A HYSTERICAL RIGHT WING PRESS.

I really don't know how to stress this enough. If you see something, so a bit of research around it. If there's any basis of truth in it at all, consider why it's in the press. Is it because it's ludicrous? Does that imply to you that no-one actually believes it? And if it is either a) made up, or b) so ludicrous that no-one would endorse it, consider whether it's worth getting worked up about.
Reporting these 'stories' only spreads mistrust and ill-will in the season of goodwill. Do yourselves a favour and stop continuing the debate and spreading the message.

[Gromit]

Supernick

Todays Daily Mail: Tesco bans Christmas carols

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles /news/news.html?in_article_id=500973&in_page_i d=1770

[brionon]

Gromit -and you might like to ponder that your ''Peace loving'' Xtians spread their pernicious faith with fire and sword and nicked your festivals from the religions you persecuted.

[Supernick]

Missed that one Gromit.

I can imagine the writer of this one thinking Hmmmm, how can I liven up this.

"Brass band playing in foyer of supermarket asked to move outside due to congestion issues".

Ahhh, I know. I bet they were playing Christmas carols. "Tesco bans Christmas". You almost have to admire them for turning a piece of 'news' that would not make the 'news in brief' section of a weekly local rag into a major national concern.

[jake-the-peg]

Great example of Daily Mail journalism.

Headline "Tesco bans Christmas Carols"

They don't say it but there's an implication that it's a religous PC bent.

Then the next level puts up the official line "Health and safety fears" - another mail bug bear

Read detail and you see their audience was blocking up the aisles.

Finally we get "When I asked why he said it was for Health and Safety reasons and to avoid congestion. "The feeling of our bass player was that they merely wanted more space for the poinsettia display - because that is what they moved in when we left.

The Mail always does this - headlines up things in a way to appeal to the prejudices of it's readership and relies on them being too lazy to read the whole story and think about it

Nice example

Oh and you can all stop blaming muslims for the demise of the Advent plays - it's more likely to be athiests like me going into the schools and asking head teachers what they think they're playing at.

Schools are no place for religion of any sort - keep fairy stories where they belong - in church or synagogue or mosque or temple.

Schools are for real education!

[kwicky]

Religions living side by side cannot exist in peace! It's all due to intolerance by a faction of the population. By giving in to this minority only adds weight to their views and the humbler tolerant people are the ones affected. That is why Christian views should not succumb to the bigots.

[Bazile]

I dont think we should concentrate too much on ' Nativity plays '
This is just an example of the more more wider isuue , with respect to political correcteness , in not offending other faiths .

[Gromit]

kwicky

Christian, Jew and Muslim have in the past, lived Harmoniously together. There was a period of La Convivencia in Spain, when these three faiths co-existed side-by-side.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/8636/C onvivencia.html

[sp1814]

Bazile

Where did you read that figure stating that 80% of schools aren't holding nativity plays?

Also...something I've just thought - why should schools put on nativity plays? Surely it would be more appropriate for local churches to be doing this?

That may cause a problem though...with so many people not bothering to go to church, they might not actually know where their local church is located.

[kwicky]

Religions may have co-existed a millenium ago but present conflicts prove otherwise. Probably the media is to blame! Just as there are bad apples in every civilisation the formenters of hate and violence will surface and the use of religion will provide a platform.

[ruby27]

Rather than doing research by way of a limited literature review, I have done some qualitative, In depth interviews of two Head Teachers of Primary Schools.

I asked my friends, did their school do Nativity plays, if not was this due to pressure by PC groups within the County Council, or for some other reason.

Both head teachers are rather autocratic and the thought they did anything at the bidding of a bureaucrat from county hall was very amusing to them.

Neither of them do put on Nativity plays, a decision made in conjunction with the Governance board, which has parents on this board. The schools� catchment areas are predominately white.