Rape is Rape ... Idiots ... I am steaming!

[joggerjayne]

I can hardly read today's papers without screaming.

What is WRONG with these idiot women?

They are attacking Kenneth Clarke for disagreeing with the suggestion that "rape is rape".

So here are 2 scenarios ...

Scenario (1)

Me and the BF roll in a bit p!ssed. He wants a bonk. I'm not really up for it. As we fall asleep, he has his way with me, kisses me, and falls asleep.

I wake up wondering why there's a sticky patch on my side of the bed.

He give me a coffee, and some toast.

Scenario (2)

As I walk home, a bag is thrown over my head. Four strangers drag me, screaming, into an alley. To stop me screaming, they punch me in the face, until I am unconscious. They take turns raping me, in the dirt, behind the wheelie bins.

I wake up in hospital, connected to a drip feed. My nose is broken. I have lost a lot of blood.

The doctor tells me that the men who raped me were arrested buying drugs. One of them is known to be HIV positive, and I will need to be tested.

So ...

There is really NO difference between these rapes?

As a victim, I should feel no worse about scenario (2)?

God almighty.

Feminists have a track record of making the rest of us look stupid, but this time they've really gone too far.

These women are morons !!!!!!!

[pa___ul3]

JJ - I do think Daffy's horrible case raised issues around your point 1, where you almost trivialise it because the fella wants it but the woman doesn't, it can be a hell of a lot more serious than 'oh the cheeky bugger's not getting any for a few weeks now'. I know you were using an extreme but where you've put "Scenario (1) is a situation where, most of the time, the woman would consent." that really shouldn't matter. If she says no, and means it, it should be no, that kind of rape can be incredibly damaging in it's own right.
Daffy - well done for getting out of it by whatever means you took, and credit for having the strength to post it, I think it's a topic that can easily be hidden and awareness to it is hugely important!

[joggerjayne]

It's not just me, then ?

It's more often me who is under the covers, trying to coax a response, when the OH is lying there comatose.

Okay, okay ... I'll turn myself in at the nick.

=0(

[anotheoldgit]

What is triggerhippy's problem, or does he just wish to see is unconstructive comments answered?

If that is the reason, then we can easily put an end to his wishes.

[joggerjayne]

pu___ul ...

Yes, you can tinker with the facts of "Scenario (1)" to try to move it closer to a "Scenario (2)".

But if you are trying to persuade me that being raped by your husband is "absolutely no different whatsoever" from being raped by four violent, drug fuelled, STD infected strangers ... then you still have a bit of a way to go.

But, you do have some support from the women in todays' paper, who say that there is absolutely no difference.

[pa___ul3]

I'm not saying there's no difference JJ, of course there's huge differences, just saying just because you would normally doesn't mean it can't be devastating.
Surely, though, being raped by someone in whom you had completely trusted would have different damaging effects?
I suppose I'm just taking issue a bit with how blase you seem about scenario 1, which, to me, is still disgusting.

[joggerjayne]

Q7. Compare and contrast the following propositions, with as little self righteous indignation as possible. (10 marks)

(a)

You had sex with me.
I love you.
I usually agree to sex with you.
I did not want sex on the day in question.

(b)

You had sex with me,
I have never even met you before.
I would never, ever agree to sex with you.
I did not want sex with you on that day, or on any other day, but two of your friends were kneeling on my arms, and another of your friends was holding a sack over my face.

Time allowed: 15 minutes

[joggerjayne]

"different damaging effects" ?

Be careful, Paul ... !

You can't use the word "different".

The feminists will be upon you with their daggers is you suggest that there could be anything "different" about two rape scenarios.

[mightywease]

I agree with pa__ul3 on this.

For some people being raped by someone you know and trust will be a lot worse than being raped by a stranger, for others it won't.

What is being obscured by all the arguments surrouding Ken Clarke's comments is that convictions for rape are woefully low and that, as has been shown on this thread, rape by a friend/husband/date is still seem as being a lesser evil than rape by a stranger and that somehow a woman shouldn't feel as bad about it. If a woman says no to sex and is then forced into having sex it's rape, as simple as that. And if my husband had sex with me when I was asleep I would see that as a violation and, yes, as rape.

The effects of rape can be devestating, this should not be forgetten

[TonyV]

without getting into a lot of legal talk - if you agree that rape is non consenting penertration - then like any crime there are degrees. i.e. stealing a a sweet from Woolworths pick and mix / armed robbery of a bank
So if a one stand goes wrong the morning after when you have sobered up / it is totally different from someone hiding in the the hedge waiting for someone to come along

[samak]

mightwease and pa___ul

By your definition, I have been raped multiple times by my wife.
I never realised before how much I had been violated.
I better call the cops now.

[joggerjayne]

There's something rather nice about being woken up by ...

Aah, hang on ... I suppose that means I'm agreeing to it.

Okay, forget that.

[mightywease]

So samuk you have had sex with your wife when she was asleep so unable to consent or after she has said that no she doesn't want sex.

I am glad I am not married to you if you show such disregard for someone you care about

[joggerjayne]

Well, in the absence of any pressing work (obviously!!) I'm going to the gym for a bit.

SYL, and thanks for the debate ... x x x

[samak]

mightywease
You are clearly an idiot. I wrote that I had been raped, not the other way around.

[murraymints]

JJ lots of sense in what you say...however if you say no then no is what matters, we have all been there with the late night can't be bothered..get on with it ..but that is a differant matter......

[TonyV]

jayne - providing it's the same person that you fell asleap with?

[pa___ul3]

JJ - I think that's kind of where the grey area is, I'm not suggesting we should ask permission every time we want a bit, if you like that, and your fella knows that, then that's kind of assumed consent.
But if someones fella wanted some and they said no, for whatever reason, but meant it, they really didn't want any, and he forced himself upon them and had his way anyway, then that's where the line is crossed.

[cazzz1975]

I agree with paul, its also a lack of respect to ignore your partners wishes and force yourself on them.