At last someone has the guts to speak out...

[trt]

and he has my backing, 100%

http://www.dailymail....ers-blood-speech.html

[I.Don No]

sometimes David Starkey can come across as a bit pompous but he is spot on this time.

[IggyB]

I didn't see the programme but if he is saying the reason white people were rioting is because they have embraced 'black' culture and speech patterns then he is misguided at best and a moronic racist at worse... he is probably something inbetween though (a misguided moron?).

[anotheoldgit]

Absolutely agree, I constantly see these male white 'chavs' lumbering down the streets with their black type swagger, along with their tram line hairstyles and their hardly understandable Caribbean broken English, which I think they call 'street talk'.

What's it all about?

David Starkey is no knuckle dragging racist as many would wish to call him, he is an educated and distinguished historian, and no way should he lose his job for making an innocent observation on some of the young white males of today.

[anotheoldgit]

/// and a moronic racist at worse... he is probably something in between though (a misguided moron?).///

Here they come the usual aggressive insults we have come to expect from some, mainly the 'nasty left'.

Why can't they just say they take objection to what he had said, surely that would have sufficed?

[NOX]

Just watched it, blithering blabbering idiot whose comments at the moment are dangerous and foolhardy. I dont feel that ' black culture' is more likely to riot or be involved in gangs ( coming from Belfast in fact I KNOW this), and the British have a huge history of managing to riot and loot, murder and kill long before a black peson ever set foot in England. He's an idiot, plus he's boring and not a very good historian, so good riddance.

[Philtaz]

Watched it here yesterday:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14513517

A very reasoned argument indeed.

[Gromit]

I wonder if Starkey is an AnswerBank reader...

Gromit last Tuesday
// Maybe the white dudes have been influenced by black rap music. //
sp1814
// Gromit, Thank you!
If anyone would like to use the 'influenced by black people / rap music' excuse //

http://www.theanswerb...649.html#.Tke_snOlA5g

[IggyB]

haha I do so love your 'reasonable man' routine AOG - it is very amusing...

[anotheoldgit]

/// I dont feel that ' black culture' is more likely to riot or be involved in gangs ( coming from Belfast in fact I KNOW this), ///

So coming from Belfast makes you something of an expert does it?

Surely the riot scenes must have been broadcast over to Ireland, didn't they show the scenes of mainly black youths rampaging through the streets setting fire to police cars, buses, buildings and looting?

And haven't you also heard that there is a big problem of black on black crime on the streets of London? So much so that Scotland Yard set up Operation Trident, and the Metropolitan Police Operation Blunt 2.

[Gromit]

Enoch Powell and David Irving disprove the notion that educated and distinguished historians cannot also be racist and therefore cannot be wrong.

[Gromit]

AOG

You are missing NOX's point. Londonderry has been the scene of rioting and attacks on the police this week. There was not a blackman in sight, and no one is seriously suggesting that rap music was the cause.

[Craftypig]

Seriously!! All week long we have been fed this absolutely pathetic diet of blame this, blame that, blame the other, blah blah blah etc etc!! Some high profile cleric even had the audacity to blame me (all of society) for the recent riots!! Well screw him and screw all the sheeple that swallow this vile crap!! Few facts worthy of consideration. 1) Not all the rioters were from ethnic minority backgrounds 2) Not all the rioters were from broken homes 3) Not all the rioters were from low income families. Lay the blame squarely at the feet of the rioters, whether they be black, white or whatever colour you choose to call them. For Christs sake the blinkers off and get real!!!!

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

I am not missing the point.

What have the riots in Belfast got to do with the riots that took place in England?

They may not have black culture or even black gangs in Belfast, but we certainly do in London and that caused our riots.

Incidentally why not do one of your researches and come up with the date of when a black person first set a foot in England?

[daisya]

Glad to see that someone has at last come out with something that a lot of people have been thinking. However, because of it no doubt he will be branded racist (or whatever) and will be ostracised because of his words. There's obviously more to the riots than this but IMO I think this is one of the underlying themes to it.

[boxtops]

Admittedly there were a lot, but a great many of the people who rioted were certainly not black or Asian - that might be how it started but not how it ended up, there were plenty of white youth and adults taking parts and arrested.

[emmie]

didn't he get something of a rough ride fairly recently on tv, when he took part in Jamie Oliver's experiment of getting young kids into work, placements or some such. I didn't watch a lot, because by and large the kids were pretty awful, they were loud and rude to all the mentors, like simon callow, the actor.
I would say there is a grain of truth of what he has to say, though it's quite incendiary given the current climate. We emulated our black friends, way back when, because they had the best music, at least we thought so at the time.

[emmie]

AOG suggest that black people have been in England, indeed Britain for many centuries, probably as far back as Roman times, and who knows before, perhaps not in the numbers you may be alluding to, don't know.

[NOX]

AOG you did (intentionally I would imagine) miss my point entirely. I live in England now, I come originally from Belfast, from West Belfast to be precise and it makes me (since we had virtually NO ethnic minorities in Belfast when I was growing up) at least an anecdotal expert on the fact that we had rife gang warfare both saocial and paramilitary without the help of any black people whatsoever.
With regards to your asking me to come up with a date that the first black person set foot on English soil, I have now realised that the very first was certainly resident in the 12th century so I'm fairly sure now that he and his decendants MUST have started the Peasant's Revolt all on their own, probably influencing the locals with their nasty Middle English Rap music, and of course it was propbably why the snood became so popular with medieval peasants, so that they could hide their faces during looting- imagine that, the whole bloody Peasant's revolt being started by one black man. Does any of that sound even vaguely likely to even you, AOG? Thought not.
As Craftypig has pointed out there is only one set of people to blame for looting etc and that the people doing it whatever their colour or creed, this is NOT a race issue, there are victims of all racial groups involved in this not just perpetrators.

[sp1814]

Elderly people need to do some reading before they trot out incorrect statements. Young people of Asian, black and white background DO NOT SPEAK WEST INDIAN PATOIS.

Because Mr Starkey doen't know what he's talking about, he has made a fundamental mistake. West Indian literally cannot understand young Brits, because the accent they use has nothing to do with West Indian accents. It's an entirely new accent, and it only exists in the UK.

[sp1814]

One last thing - older people should strenuously avoid referring to rap music because it reveals their ignorance to anyone with even a passing knowledge of what kids listen to.

Star key is talking about the effects of 'gansta rap', which is a form of music which literally died a death about a decade ago. If he knew what he was talking about, he would know that kids now have moved on to Dizzie Rascal, Tiniest Tempah, Chris Brown, Wiley etc.

People need to a do little research before making comments about youth culture.