Identity Cards

[netibiza]

If Labour introduce Identity cards - would ex-pats have to have an English one, being as we are still British, - living in Spain I have to have a Spanish identity card - and personally I think it's a good idea?

[jake-the-peg]

On the radio this morning I heard the claim that identity cards would've helped in the arrest of Kamel Bourgass (the Ricin terrorist) and thought how daft surely he wouldn't have carried a real card - then I realised -this isn't about cards this is about fingerprinting ( and/or retinal scaning ) the entire population and recording it on a database. The cards are merely there to enforce it and make sure everybody is processed. - If they can get away with it they'll enforce a DNA sample too.

I'd imagine you'll have to be done if you apply for a passport renewal.

I guess whether you think these things are a good idea depends on how much you trust the police and criminal justice system and how afraid you are of crime.

One of the bigger issues is whether or not it becomes mandatory to carry one.

Ever gone to the shops and found you left your wallet in your other trousers? If carrying an ID card becomes mandatory you will be committing a criminal offence.

Be fun if you have your wallet stolen too! presumably that won't be an excuse wonder how long it'll take to get a replacement?

[SteveD]

I have a Belgian ID card and have no problem about carrying it with me all the time.  If you lose it, you go to the police and they do a declaration of loss/theft etc.  This document will do to cover you for the time it takes you to get to the Commune and request a new one.  In the Commune where I live, they will do this for you straight away.

 

If, in future, British ex-pats will get  a UK ID card, that's fine by me and it will probably replace the passport for travel with in the EU.

 

Are you aware that the US authorities want biometric data to be put on passports so that you can benefit from the visa waiver scheme:

 

"The US Government has legislated that anyone travelling to the US under the Visa Waiver Programme with a passport issued on or after 26 October 2005, will have to have a biometric passport in order to travel visa free. Biometric passports will contain data about the holder�s face, and may also contain other unique personal information such as fingerprints and iris details. The UK is working on its programme to introduce biometric passports, but it will not be fully ready in time for the 26 October 2005 deadline. British Citizens who would normally travel under the VWP may therefore require a visa, which will include biometric data, to enter the US on or after 26 October 2005, if their passport is issued after that date and is not biometric."

[jake-the-peg]

Do you have biometric data on the Spanish or Belgian cards?

[netibiza]

No no biometric on the Spanish i.d's but yes fingerprints and actually by law we have to produce it any time we wish to buy most things and can be arrested if not found to be carrying one. Big rumpus here at mo as Government says not necessary anymore but Civil Police and Traffic cops insist on them so what do you do. Cops are more important that the gov at present.

[Little Lady]

I agree to some extent but on the other side it seems to be a way of controlling us and noting our every move. Though they can do this through mobile phones it seems a little extreme yet for travelling visa free its great. Being arrested for not having one on you is really unfair and having a time to show this to a police station would be fairer like when you have to show your vehicle documents you get so long etc. There are so many for and againsts for this im not really sure what i think atthe moment.

[Dom Tuk]

The convicted killer got a 17 year sentence but will be out in 8 years. guess what will happen to him??. Will he be deported??. No chance....who will take him....how do we know who he is? He has a valid claim under human rights law that he will be tortured/killed if returned to Algeria. So i daresay a British passport/ID card will be waiting for him. This is what happens when we sign up to laws.

[Artemis]

I wouldn't have a problem with an ID card. But I am a law abiding citizen and have nothing to hide.

[KebabMeister]

I don't have a problem with an ID card.  I hold a UK passport but work in Germany and therefore I have a Sonderausweis - German ID card.  You maybe asked to show this if purchasing things or signing for stuff at the post office etc.

[pjm007]

jake-the-peg, I have just sent off for a renewal passport and there was no mention finger-printing, retinal scanning, DNA sampling or any other links to an identity card. However this could well happen in the not too distant future. In my opinion I.D cards are a good idea, if you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to worry about. Also, they would hopefully cut down on terrorism, crime and the ever increasing influx of illegal immigrants.

[Corkyb]

I haven't got a problem with the idea either.

[jake-the-peg]

I have a major problem with having to carry one at all times. - I think most other people would too after a year of so of it  - The Spanish situation sounds pretty awfull.

I also am somewhat worried about mistakes/identity theft. Just think about what could happen to you if I went along to the police said I were you and that I'd lost my ID card and got one with some dodgy ID.

Of course that sort of thing wont happen because this system will be up and running flawlessly in no time at all won't it?

I must say I know half of you don't trust Tony Blair to tie his own shoelaces yet you seem totally happy to trust him to set up an identity monitorring system.

[SteveD]

As I am not a Belgian citizen, but am resident in Belgium, my ID card is, in fact, a "Carte de S�jour de Ressortissant d'un Etat Membre de la C.E.E.".  It is not the same as the ID cards held by Belgian citizens.

It has a photo, name, address, birth place and date, civil status, nationality, sex and National Insurance number on it together with my signature.

Here, the police can require you to produce it but, if you don't have it with you, you just have to produce it at a police station within a certain time.  You always need it for "official" things such as picking up a package from the post office etc.

I think that, in places where you can be arrested for not having it with you, unless the police suspect you of some offence, you are unlikely to be arrested because it would be more trouble than it's worth for them.  This is likely to be scaremongering from the anti-ID-card people.

People might grumble about it, but it works fine.

[tanyavee]

I don�t mind as long as it hasn�t got my name on it.

[netibiza]

jake-the-peg the thing about Spain is that we have to respect the police authorities at all times and it may sound worrying but its a good thing - they look after us - but do a dirty deed and God help you - I think it's nice to know where you stand - we are 2nd class citizens here, always have been, but I have no problem with that.  I feel 2nd class in Britian these days aswell  and feel Britian could do with some Spanish policing to sort out the yobbish youth (which incidentally we have to put up withover here in the summer months).  Keep your nose clean and it's a wonderful place to live.

[jake-the-peg]

But if you're "not one of us" watch out?

[jake-the-peg]

I think the fundamental difference here is simply that you trust the Police and I don't.

Right now in the UK we have the Devon and Cornwall Police investigating the Surrey Police's inquiry into the Deepcut Barrack deaths and that's just what's going on now. If we go back a few years we have the West Midlands serious crime squad, Motorway police playing car snooker ( pulling cars based on their colour ) etc. etc.

I don't want to abolish the Police but I certainly don't see them as a heroic thin blue line between us and anarchy and I no more want to put identity cards in their hands than I want to give my eleven year old son an air rifle.

For the same reason - I don't trust either to use it responsibly.

Maybe I'll start a "Who trusts the Police" thread next week.

[netibiza]

Trust the police?  I think not - here they are (allegedly)  more corrupt than yours can ever be but they won't put up with any nonsense - we have no choice if we want to live here ( I am talking specifically of Ibiza - which prides itself on being different from the mainland - and before you ask yes they can have different laws).  Obviously there are some good trustworthy ones - but on the whole they are a bigheaded "look at me I'm important"lot - but I've been here 34yrs and was a hippie and rebel and I've got on OK - once they know your face they pretty much leave you alone - but lots of the police get changed over regularly between here and the mainland to stop this . The occasional grovel pays dividends.

[netibiza]

P:S: Jake-the-peg over here 11yr olds (and younger) do have air rifles - its just a different way of life. Some of it is good some of it isn't.

[hopalong]

British

[Zen]

Did you have to pay for your Spanish card / Whilst I have no problem with the idea of an ID card I begrudge being charged �85 for it,the should be issued free.