Gang culture rears it's ugly head once again.

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail....-spree-Liverpool.html

I have to repeat once again, when are our politicians going to stop pussy footing about and take constructive and severely strict measures to stamp out this ever increasing gang culture amongst some of our young?

Look at these young faces, they are so hard looking what causes this? They have all there lives in front of them and they have to ruin it, why?

Good the judge decided to allow for these young thugs to be identified, why cannot it be the norm in all young criminal's cases?

Be interested to know what ABers might suggest would be an answers to the problem, without the usual "Bring back National service" because we all know that is never going to happen, more to the pity.

[LoftyLottie]

I must admit I don't know any personally ummmm - but then I don't mix in those sort of circles ;o). However, you only have to go round the supermarket or walk through the town and you can make fairly accurate judgements about some people by their behaviour and the behaviour of their kids.

[B00]

Yesterday at work ummmm, there were two girls (mid 20's say?) one heavily pregnant buying booze (classy!) and the pregnant one turned ot her mate and said

"Can't wait till ive had her, then i can REALLY party"...

I just wanted to weep.

THIS is the type of feral scum I serve on a daily basis, these "things" are producing babies without even thinking about it, as doing that is easier and way more profitable than actually getting off your arse and working for a living. These kids of people are the low lifes who are producing children highlighted by AOG in his post- apologies for somewhat straying from the topic by the way AOG!

[pa___ul3]

Ummm, you have a point, some people have been unable to learn how to be a good parent. To be a good parent, though, you need to want to be a good parent and thus should want to attend such courses without the need of bribery.
By all means offer help to the disadvantaged, but don't pay them to attend.

[ummmm]

I understand where you're both coming from but sometimes people like that are also victims of their upbringing...

[Kromovaracun]

"Why did Rome Fall?

There are adherents to single factors, but more people think a combination of such factors as Christianity, decadence, lead, monetary trouble, and military problems caused the Fall of Rome. Imperial incompetence and chance could be added to the list. Even the rise of Islam is proposed as the reason for Rome's fall, by some who think the Fall of Rome happened at Constantinople in A.D. 1453"

Where have you plucked this from? I can't think of any professional historian who would seriously describe 'decadence' as an actual historical factor in anything because it's wholly relative to the present (Ancient Greek culture did not view sexual aggression, misogyny or pederasty, for instance, as 'decadent' while we do) and doesn't explain anything causally (what causes 'decadence'? What does it even mean in the context you're referring to it?).

And yes I've read your link. It strikes me as an excellent example of prejudice ("The abhorrent presence of a few gays infected a good part of the (Roman) people") and is patently motivated by a moral judgement on the present ("Prof Mattei, a conservative Catholic and a former adviser on international affairs to the government, drew a parallel between the supposed moral degeneracy of imperial Rome and that of contemporary Italy") - which isn't by any means a bad thing, but it is when it does more than just motivate you to ask questions and actually dominates your conclusions - which is exactly what appears to have happened with Mattei.

[LoftyLottie]

I know ummmm. I agree. But unfortunately I don't think the circle will be broken by pussyfooting around, giving out vouchers for courses, etc. Sometimes there have to be firm measures and people, including children, will suffer as a result. Sometimes there have to be revolutions and blood spilled (talking metaphorically here) in order to create a better future. It's a hard fact of life.

At the moment it is too easy for some people to live off others, get benefits, not be responsible people and expect to go on living that lifestyle and teaching their children that life style.

I don't have an answer, but whatever the answer it is will mean suffering for some.

[ummmm]

But some dysfunctional families work as well...is this scheme just aimed at people on benefits?

[Kromovaracun]

And by the way, a quick google search of Roberto de Mattei reveals that he not only viewed the Tsunami in Japan as a divine punishment, has chaired committees openly against evolutionism, and is the editor of 'Radici Cristiane'. I have absolutely no idea how he has ended up with the list of positions at various institutes he has, but frankly I'm aghast. As somebody taking baby steps towards becoming part of the historical research community, I can tell you honestly that he is utterly unrepresentative of the profession.

[LoftyLottie]

True ummmm, some of these families do work. The vouchers will pay for the organisations running the training courses - they are of no benefit to the people who attend the courses. So people who should attend just won't attend. They can't force them - so what is the point. Just an expensive campaign using taxpayers money.

[anotheoldgit]

ummmm

/// I'm not condoning anyone....but some people know no better.///

I would have thought that bringing up children by the female especially, was natural.

After all even the animal kingdom seem to make a pretty good job of it, and who taught them?

[ummmm]

It doesn't come naturally for everyone...

And what about the women who stay with men who beat them....because that's what their father did to their mother.

People pass on behaviour.....

[anotheoldgit]

B00

No need to apologise Boo, yourself and Lottie have put up a very good argument, and I agree with everything you have both said on the subject.

[LoftyLottie]

Yes, it does need breaking, by tough measures not by pampering to people.

[LoftyLottie]

Do you mean 'what' Triggs.

I spray them and exterminate them!!

[ummmm]

How do you break the circle though?

[B00]

The present system of throwing money at them triggs doesn't appear to have worked either.