ChatterBank0 min ago
Why was the Stephen Lawrence murder any different from others? Discuss.
74 Answers
Why has this case created so much attention and will it continue to do so?
There is no question that this murder was a brutal needless murder, committed by one of a number of savage racist thugs.
There has been a conviction and two of the perpetrators are at last behind bars, but the police have stated that they will not close their file on this case until the others are also behind bars.
But one must ask, was this particular murder any more vicious than hundreds of others, which haven’t been given the same attention that this one has, why?
Even the hundreds of child murders or even mass murders have not been classed important enough as this one has to force a change in a law that has been part of English law for centuries, I refer of course to the double jeopardy law.
Because this law no longer exists due to this case, it means now that the state has the right to repeatedly send to trial a person until they get the conviction they seek, it also encourages police and prosecutors to act recklessly, attempting spurious or rushed prosecutions, reassured that there may be a second chance further down the line. In addition, a jury which knows of the case before it is sent for retrial.
This case has created mass media and in turn public hysteria, a change in law,
the need by the police to enter a person's residence and plant video and audio devices to record a person's activities, a situation where it seems the murder of a black person is deemed more serious than the murder of a white person, or the murder of a child or the mass murder of persons.
These are all serious concerns that I know others have voiced (perhaps not on AB,) but on radio phone-ins and on the street.
Can we now have a serious discussion on this, without the need for the usual insults and cries of racism, I am not asking for agreement with these concerns, but I wish for others to explain why this particular murder was any different than hundreds of others?
There is no question that this murder was a brutal needless murder, committed by one of a number of savage racist thugs.
There has been a conviction and two of the perpetrators are at last behind bars, but the police have stated that they will not close their file on this case until the others are also behind bars.
But one must ask, was this particular murder any more vicious than hundreds of others, which haven’t been given the same attention that this one has, why?
Even the hundreds of child murders or even mass murders have not been classed important enough as this one has to force a change in a law that has been part of English law for centuries, I refer of course to the double jeopardy law.
Because this law no longer exists due to this case, it means now that the state has the right to repeatedly send to trial a person until they get the conviction they seek, it also encourages police and prosecutors to act recklessly, attempting spurious or rushed prosecutions, reassured that there may be a second chance further down the line. In addition, a jury which knows of the case before it is sent for retrial.
This case has created mass media and in turn public hysteria, a change in law,
the need by the police to enter a person's residence and plant video and audio devices to record a person's activities, a situation where it seems the murder of a black person is deemed more serious than the murder of a white person, or the murder of a child or the mass murder of persons.
These are all serious concerns that I know others have voiced (perhaps not on AB,) but on radio phone-ins and on the street.
Can we now have a serious discussion on this, without the need for the usual insults and cries of racism, I am not asking for agreement with these concerns, but I wish for others to explain why this particular murder was any different than hundreds of others?
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Most murders are cleared up very quickly and the people responsible brought to justice. For whatever reason, the original investigation was very poor, and it took the intervention of the Daily Mail to embarrass the authorities into getting justice and removing these dangerous scumbags from the streets.
It helped that Stephen Lawrence's parents were educated, middle class and dignified. I fear that if they were not, the campaign for justice would have fizzled out.
It helped that Stephen Lawrence's parents were educated, middle class and dignified. I fear that if they were not, the campaign for justice would have fizzled out.
-- answer removed --
This case caused so much attention and snowballed as a result of the blase, inept and frankly lacklustre initial response to a murder by the Met in general but particularly the detectives initially assigned to the case.
http://en.wikipedia.o..._police_investigation
As others have pointed out, it changed the law. Jack Straw has stated that ordering the MacPherson inquiry was the single most important act he carried out whilst in office as Home Secretary.
http://en.wikipedia.o..._police_investigation
As others have pointed out, it changed the law. Jack Straw has stated that ordering the MacPherson inquiry was the single most important act he carried out whilst in office as Home Secretary.
This case was a perfect storm - boy was murdered, he was then projected by the police as some sort of criminal therefore not worthy of investigation, A claim found to be totaly without basis, so whos word was it. - Thg were well known in the area but the police waited two weeks to arrest them after they had been named by a number of people - The parents were criminals and had got away with a number of crimes to that point.
But most tellingly it wasn't what you knew but who you knew, youll have to look that up because you won't find it in the Mail.
But most tellingly it wasn't what you knew but who you knew, youll have to look that up because you won't find it in the Mail.
AOG
The first conviction after the abolition of the double jeopardy rule was of William Dunlop for the murder of Julie Hogg.
// For 17 years Ann Ming pursued a dignified but unremitting campaign to win justice for her murdered daughter, Julie Hogg.
It was a slow but remorseless war of attrition, which ended in victory at the Old Bailey last week when William Dunlop ? Julie's killer, who had been found not guilty of the crime in 1991 ? was finally tried and convicted of her murder.
The first conviction after the abolition of the double jeopardy rule was of William Dunlop for the murder of Julie Hogg.
// For 17 years Ann Ming pursued a dignified but unremitting campaign to win justice for her murdered daughter, Julie Hogg.
It was a slow but remorseless war of attrition, which ended in victory at the Old Bailey last week when William Dunlop ? Julie's killer, who had been found not guilty of the crime in 1991 ? was finally tried and convicted of her murder.
Happy New Year AOG!
I think you have rasied a very interesting point here.
This case has parallels with the Madelaine McCann case - children are kidnapped every day, but this case caught the national imagination.
It could - as others have suggested - be down to the campaigning of Stepehn's parents, but I am not sure that explains the massive interest at the time, which has bubbled under from the icrime itself until now - and onwards, given that others involved are still at large.
I would counter your premise that it appears that this muder is nore important because the victim is black - i think the wider picture is the issue here - the lacklustre police action was the result of the vcictim's ethnicity, which is not the same as concluding that his ethnicity made his murder any more horrendous on that basis alone.
This will run and run, and hopefully some good for society as a whole will result.
I think you have rasied a very interesting point here.
This case has parallels with the Madelaine McCann case - children are kidnapped every day, but this case caught the national imagination.
It could - as others have suggested - be down to the campaigning of Stepehn's parents, but I am not sure that explains the massive interest at the time, which has bubbled under from the icrime itself until now - and onwards, given that others involved are still at large.
I would counter your premise that it appears that this muder is nore important because the victim is black - i think the wider picture is the issue here - the lacklustre police action was the result of the vcictim's ethnicity, which is not the same as concluding that his ethnicity made his murder any more horrendous on that basis alone.
This will run and run, and hopefully some good for society as a whole will result.
AOG
http://www.dailymail....rdered-daughter.html.
Do you really believe that this Julie Hogg's murder should not have had a retrial?
http://www.dailymail....rdered-daughter.html.
Do you really believe that this Julie Hogg's murder should not have had a retrial?
Gromit
/// That is clearly not true. Hysterical. And nonscense ///
You really think so do you Gromit?
Interesting to note the fact that these two cases have not attracted much action, could it be because the victims were white? In fact in the case of the young girl who was set on by a group of Muslims, they got off scot free.
http://www.dailymail....bed-death-street.html
http://www.dailymail....-white-***-FREED.html
What kind of message do these two cases send out?
Getting back to the Lawrence case, it wasn't the first time that the police made a botch job of a case and it wont be the last, but has an enquiry ever been specifically set up previously?
There are also numerous unsolved crimes, so nothing new there.
/// That is clearly not true. Hysterical. And nonscense ///
You really think so do you Gromit?
Interesting to note the fact that these two cases have not attracted much action, could it be because the victims were white? In fact in the case of the young girl who was set on by a group of Muslims, they got off scot free.
http://www.dailymail....bed-death-street.html
http://www.dailymail....-white-***-FREED.html
What kind of message do these two cases send out?
Getting back to the Lawrence case, it wasn't the first time that the police made a botch job of a case and it wont be the last, but has an enquiry ever been specifically set up previously?
There are also numerous unsolved crimes, so nothing new there.
AOG
Not sure what your point is bringing up the Danny O'Shea case. A man has quickly been arrested (as is more usual in murder cases.
// A 43-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of murder.
In a statement Mr O'Shea's mother Julie Brewer said: "We do not know why such a terrible thing happened, but what we do know is that this is not racially motivated as Danny was a popular boy with friends from all cultural backgrounds. //
http://www.bbc.co.uk/...gland-london-16022192
I am frankly baffled what point you are trying to make. What kind of messages does this case send out?
Not sure what your point is bringing up the Danny O'Shea case. A man has quickly been arrested (as is more usual in murder cases.
// A 43-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of murder.
In a statement Mr O'Shea's mother Julie Brewer said: "We do not know why such a terrible thing happened, but what we do know is that this is not racially motivated as Danny was a popular boy with friends from all cultural backgrounds. //
http://www.bbc.co.uk/...gland-london-16022192
I am frankly baffled what point you are trying to make. What kind of messages does this case send out?
Davethedog
/// But most tellingly it wasn't what you knew but who you knew, youll have to look that up because you won't find it in the Mail. ///
It is surprising what one finds in the Mail, and they are not afraid to report it.
So much for the 'Daily Mail Bashers' accusations of the Mail being Right Wing Racists etc.
http://www.dailymail....-brought-justice.html
/// But most tellingly it wasn't what you knew but who you knew, youll have to look that up because you won't find it in the Mail. ///
It is surprising what one finds in the Mail, and they are not afraid to report it.
So much for the 'Daily Mail Bashers' accusations of the Mail being Right Wing Racists etc.
http://www.dailymail....-brought-justice.html
AOG In your first example the boys father said it wasn't a racial crime indeed the inference was gangland (but I may have that wrong) but you were told that, not by me, the first time you posted about it.
In your 2nd example the girl is still alive so I fail to see the validity.
Daisya - 4 people were convicted of Carl Bridgwaters murder- the convictions were quashed due to some fabrication however the court of appeal stated "we consider that there remains evidence on which a reasonable jury properly directed could convict."
There is also a point that no murder case is ever closed Rachel Nickell, but hey don't let the facts get in the way AOG you don't normaly
In your 2nd example the girl is still alive so I fail to see the validity.
Daisya - 4 people were convicted of Carl Bridgwaters murder- the convictions were quashed due to some fabrication however the court of appeal stated "we consider that there remains evidence on which a reasonable jury properly directed could convict."
There is also a point that no murder case is ever closed Rachel Nickell, but hey don't let the facts get in the way AOG you don't normaly
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