if only we could burn all of them.....

[d9f1c7]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17123464
Could we ever manage to expunge the greatest evil of all from the world? Of course I mean all the religions,all as bad as each other. I cannot see how intelligent people can belive in such clap trap and to kill and harm others who have the temerity to no believe. Will mankind ever be able to shake of this millstone?

[Gromit]

Man has always found reasons to kill people who did not belong to his group, long before any of the established religions. Religion is just used as a more elaborate justification for barbarism. If there were no such thing as religion, man would find another reason for wars and killing.

[RATTER15]

andy-hughes: "I would siggest that there is no religion that preaches violence and hatred per se,"

They may not preach it but the Bible certainly suggests and recommends it!!

[anotheoldgit]

modella

/// How about the atrocities carried out by the C of E extremists
in Northern Ireland .///

I wasn't under the impression that the 'Church of England' are amongst the extremists in Northern Ireland.

Isn't it 'The Roman Catholics' and the 'Protestants'

[anotheoldgit]

Sorry, I WAS under the impression...................

[Zeuhl]

Rowan Williams is extreme; extremely silly looking and extremely foolish

[anotheoldgit]

andy-hughes

I was referring to Islam and well you know it.

Have you read the reports coming out of Afghanistan over the matter of some unintentional burnings of the Koran?

Could you see the locals of your City/Town or Village, rioting, shooting and killing people over someone accidentally burning the bible?

It is not only this incident, but take the killings that take place all over the Islamic countries.

Are all these just extremists? If so then it seems that the extremists of this religion are the majority and the peaceful shopkeeper, doctor, dentist, nurse, etc in this country are actually the minority.

[anotheoldgit]

Zeuhl

There you go once again with your extremely insulting remarks.

[anotheoldgit]

andy-hughes

/// meaning that it sanctions death and damage to non-believers, and that applies to virtually all religions - certainly Christianity. ///

Could you please post some proof of your accusation against Christianity, without of course going back into the annals of history?

[Zeuhl]

^^

So what?

Are you a fan of Dr Williams or do you just have a 'thing' for beardy long-haired types who talk rubbish?

[andy-hughes]

AOG - I did think you meant Islam, but I wouldn't wish to presume or take your views for granted, that would be disrespectful in my view.

"Could you please post some proof of your accusation against Christianity, without of course going back into the annals of history?"

Not really, but then, horrible actions carried out in the name of religion are not subject to any statute of limitations are they? Religion is as old as mankind, and so are the atrocities carried out in it name by Islam and by Christianity.

I am neither a Muslim or a Christian, so I enjoy the luxury of a detached viewpoint, but that does enable me to even-handed which i think is essential if one wants to avoid being seen as a defensive bigot.

[Zeuhl]

<<your accusation against Christianity, without of course going back into the annals of history? >>

Priests abusing children - probably still going on across the christian world

Well documented abuse of native people by christian missionaries in Latin America and Africa over many years particularly by american evangelicals

Recent atrocities by christian militias in Lebanon and The Ballkans

Close cooperation between evangelical christians and white neo nazi groups in the southern states of america

[andy-hughes]

AOG - what Zeuhl said - thanks Zeuhl.

[Zeuhl]

You're welcome Andy

BTW it's strange that Old Git is so sensitive about criticism of Rowan Williams.

Didn't Williams once describe himself as 'a bearded leftie' and state that he thought it a good idea for some aspects of sharia law to be applied in the UK?

[anotheoldgit]

Zeuhl

/// BTW it's strange that Old Git is so sensitive about criticism of Rowan Williams. ///

I am not sensitive of criticisms against Rowan Williams per se, and granted he has a much to be criticised for, but what I do not like to see is for a person in his position being personally insulted in such a way, and that I would find it equally out of order when used against most other persons.

[sasskins]

I agree with rov - when things go well for believers - they are blessed. When they don't go so well - their god can't look after everybody at once, but their still blessed.

[anotheoldgit]

andy-hughes

I take exception to you calling me a 'defensive bigot', don't deny it, you made it so obvious that it was me who you directed it at.

But witnessing your support for Zeuhl, it seems obvious that some of his insulting ways must have rubbed off on you.

And please, after admitting you could not find any proof of your accusations against Christianity, you went ahead and agreed with Zeuhi's poor examples.

Still better than being held responsible for posting such rubbish yourself eh?

[andy-hughes]

AOG - I do deny it. I am sure we know each other well enough by now to know that neither of us are backward at tackling the other if we feel a personal insult has been issued, and equally we are both perfectly clear when we are doing so.

The ambiguity in my post is general, it is absolutely not aimed at you, but was intended to make an abstract point. However, if there is any misunderstanding, then please accept my sincere appologies.

My support of Zeuhl's post is rooted in the simple fact that I agree with him on this occasion - I do not feel that any of his 'insulting ways' have rubbed off on me - such things do not occur to me I asure you.

And you also know better than to assume that I would agree with any other poster's opinion rather than post my own because it is 'better than being held responsible for posting such rubbish yourself eh?'. If I have a view I will post it, and equally, if i agree with another Ab'er, I will confirm that as well.

I await your response to my comment that atrocity does not enjoy the luxury of a statute of limitations - Christians commit appalling acts on innocent poeple - whether it be the Crusaders in the twelfth century, or Father Bede Walsh, convicted of systematic child abuse in a parish about sixc miles away froom where I am sitting.

Over to you.

[Zeuhl]

<<Zeuhi's poor examples>>

The abuse of children, murders and multiple atrocities?

Any rationale or explanation why these could be imagined as 'Poor' examples?

Or is that expecting too much?

[anotheoldgit]

Thank you Andy, I accept your apology and please accept my apologies if I have incorrectly interpreted anything you said.

Right then, I hope that I have now addressed matters to your satisfaction.

Except to say Andy, and I refer to your post,

/// Christians commit appalling acts on innocent poeple - whether it be the Crusaders in the twelfth century, or Father Bede Walsh, convicted of systematic child abuse in a parish about sixc miles away froom where I am sitting. ///

A very very small minority of Christians may I add? Compared to the vast amount of appalling acts, carried out all in the name of Islam.

You quoted the Crusades, I agree many appalling acts where carried out all in the name of religion, and by all religions, but that was in the vicious annals of history, and Christianity has move on since then, but sorrowfully Islam is still wallowing in the Middle Ages unfortunately.

You also used a certain Father Bede Walsh to support your theory that Christianity is bad, well I don't know of this person, and of course systematic child abuse is to be appalled, but to place all persons who happen to be attached to the church in the same mould as these repulsive individuals is all wrong.

There are paedophiles and child abusers in all walks of life, not just in the Church, I refer you to my latest post on Asian gangs who rape and abuse under aged girls, are we to take it that all Asian men are like these low-life's? I think not.

[Zeuhl]

The difference is that Christianity/Islam etc purport to provide a model of how people should behave based on some bizarre notion that a supernatural being has sanctioned those particular beliefs.


I don't imagine the accused from Rochdale will say 'yes i did it but what i did was ok because I'm asian'

However, there are many examples where the guilty excuse their actions with ' yes i did it but it's ok because god gave me these desires/jesus told me to do it/it was god's will'

That includes the Beasts of the Balkans(christian and moslem) in the 1980s-90's, abusive priests and the christian missionaries who routinely stole people's children away in australia, africa and latin america.

Or are these poor examples too?