What can be done to 'detoxify' he flag ov St George

[sp1814]

Only 61% of English respondants reported feeling pride in the cross of St George.

The figures in Wales and Scotland (for THEIR nation flags are much higher).

Could this be because the BNP and EDL have politicised the nation symbol of identity, and thereby altered its meaning?

Is there an equivalent of the BNP in Wales and England? Have they sullied their own flags by allowing them to be associated with right wing groups?

Why did we allow this to happen again (it took YEARS for the link between the Union Flag and the Nation Front to fade).

I've heard from a couple of sources on AB, that you cannot be black or Asian and call yourself English - is this another reason behind the fragmenting of our country? No matter how much one assimilates, no matter whether you wear the best M&S suit, drive a Ford and live in Surrey, some white Britons will always see you as (the BNP puts it) 'a resident alien (and I don't think the BNP were referring to ET at this point...)

What's the answer?

[FredPuli43]

Ah, that it explains it all OG! I was worried that England was losing the right to eat roast beef and Yorkshire pudding or chant 'two world wars and one World Cup!" at Germans. :)

[whiskeryron]

I am proud to have been born in England in my veins flows the blood of Scandinavia, Germany, France, Italy ( Romans), Ireland & many more races I welcome my Brothers & Sisters from other lands who have joined us because they wanted freedom from oppression & the right to live & bring their children up in a society which recognizes the freedom of the individual. My flag is the Union Flag & I wish it to be flown with reverence at all times as the citizens of the USA fly their flag with pride. I am so disappointed that our wonderful union is breaking up into separate portions, I wish we could have kept the union instead of supposedly belonging to Europe.

W Ron.

[bazwillrun]

"I welcome my Brothers & Sisters from other lands who have joined us"

problem is how many are you going to keep on welcoming and are you happy to welcome them at the expense of your own country and its future.

[sp1814]

But please answer me this, how is it that the Scots can have their very own 'Nationalist Party' without being labelled 'Right-Wing' screaming skinheads?

Because...

http://barnsdale.file..._supporters.jpg?w=460

and because:

http://modernityblog....dlbackpool1.jpg?w=700

and because:

http://static.guim.co...efence-League-001.jpg

and because:

http://www.nothingbri...fence-League-thug.jpg

Will try to look up the thread, but it was several months ago, and it may take some time.

[Kiki-frog]

I'm only part English, but I do still take a pride in my Englishness and in the St George cross. It has been hijacked by the the BNP/EDL without a doubt, but that doesn't mean that they should be allowed to do so.

And I certainly wouldn't have any problem with a black or Asian person who was born in, say, Gloucester (first city that popped into my mind) and with British citizenship describing themselves as English. It doesn't make sense to equate Englishness with ethnicity as we're a mongrel nation anyway.

[sp1814]

AOG
You wrote:

"Also they do not seem to attract the wrath from their own ethnic minorities as do the English."

Well...I hate to bring this up - but perhaps it's because immigrants and the English/Irish/Scottish because they have a shared cultural relationship with the English.

Have you ever noticed that how well blacks and Irish get on...almost automatically?

My assumption is that if culturally, you have 'been put at a disadvantage' by the English, you almost automatically feel a bond?

Just a theory I'm throwing out.

Re: finding the post where you said that blacks and Asians aren't English. I have to concede...it's going to be impossible. I could search through all your posts, and all mine, but I can't remember if *either* of us raised the original post.

However, if you are willing to state that you agree that someone born and raised in England, no matter what their racial background , have the same right to call themselves 'English as their white counterpart...without qualification (and by that, I mean they should be able to complain about the government, campaign for political and social change, and be as unpatriotic as any white Emglishman without their 'Englishness' being questioned).

[Zeuhl]

<<we're a mongrel nation anyway>>

I prefer to think of us as selectively cross-bred

[anotheoldgit]

Like your new Avatar SP. that is how I have always visualised you :0)

Regarding your link examples.

No 1: One single idiot, that wants to make a name for himself.

No 2: If it wasn't for the flag behind them, one could take a similar photo of any ordinary group of lads out for a good time in the pub.

No 3: Could equally be a very small section of a crowd of football supporters.

No 4: A photo of one very angry looking individual.

Sorry but they don't have the same disturbing effect on me as they obviously do on you.

I could show you many more graphic and disturbing images of other certain groups, but then that would be deemed as racist so I won't bother.

[sp1814]

There's a damned hanging participle in that last paragraph.

It *should* read:

However, if you are willing to state that you agree that someone born and raised in England is English...

[Kiki-frog]

Zeuhl - LOL, nothing wrong with being a mongrel. We're generally far healthier and intelligent than in-breds!

[Zeuhl]

kiki

absolutement!

[woofgang]

another vote here for Saint Jude. As a working occupational therapist with very old and disabled people, getting them home from hospital to live as independently as possible, i had his picture over my desk and used to talk to him and ask him to put a good work in many times a day.

As someone who has been dementing since my teen years and can never find my keys or phone I would also put in a vote for Saint Anthony of Padua.

[woofgang]

PS i guess the atheists won't have a view here???????

[jno]

I was reading a book recently about Britain 's genetic makeup. The conclusion was that despite all the invasions from the Romans onward, they've contributed very little indeed. By far the biggest components come from the Basque country - in the west and Ireland - and somewhere round Ukraine, in central Britain (chiefly England). After the end of the ice age, Britain was quickly settled by groups from those areas, which had been largely ice-free. Since then, nobody has really made much difference to the population.

Food for thought.

This is the book, should anyone want to check it out

Amazon.co.uk User Recommendation

[Zeuhl]

<<By far the biggest components come from the Basque country - in the west and Ireland - and somewhere round Ukraine>>

yes jno

but it's a well known fact that around that time Ukraine was populated by good solid, english types who wanted to get away from the dodgy characters that surrounded them.

[jno]

fortunately, there was no English Channel at the time, or even Ukrainian channel for that matter, so they could just walk from Kiev to Norwich.

[woofgang]

wow, i bet they didn't have feet like mine.....

[Zeuhl]

jno

they only prospered here because they would do the Hunting & Gathering for less than the locals

[FredPuli43]

Ah, but the English may have migrated to the Basque country or the Ukraine, because they were escaping from the advancing ice and, when that retreated, come back to England !

[jno]

it's amazing what you can do when you've got a sabre-tooth tiger snapping at your rear end, woofgang.

FredPuli, that's theoretically possible (there were people here before the ice age) but the genetic evidence doesn't seem to support it it.