What can be done to 'detoxify' he flag ov St George

[sp1814]

Only 61% of English respondants reported feeling pride in the cross of St George.

The figures in Wales and Scotland (for THEIR nation flags are much higher).

Could this be because the BNP and EDL have politicised the nation symbol of identity, and thereby altered its meaning?

Is there an equivalent of the BNP in Wales and England? Have they sullied their own flags by allowing them to be associated with right wing groups?

Why did we allow this to happen again (it took YEARS for the link between the Union Flag and the Nation Front to fade).

I've heard from a couple of sources on AB, that you cannot be black or Asian and call yourself English - is this another reason behind the fragmenting of our country? No matter how much one assimilates, no matter whether you wear the best M&S suit, drive a Ford and live in Surrey, some white Britons will always see you as (the BNP puts it) 'a resident alien (and I don't think the BNP were referring to ET at this point...)

What's the answer?

[Brenden]

Morning sp, while I am digesting your thread could you please be more explicit on unified culture - what is it that you are suggesting.

[sp1814]

Brenden

Easy - you know how people complain about multiculturalism? Well a 'unified culture' is one where we all act the same, dress the same and have the same cultural identity.

Simple really.

The problem is - you can sign up to every English idiom (cf. Ainsley) and it won't make any difference - you will not be classed as English, therefore, what's the point?

[bambiboo78]

Do not understand patriotism at all & I have no allegiance to any flag, of course people are all different but what that that difference has to do with the country you happen to be born in I will never understand

[emmie]

I was in the CAB a while back, filling out one of their forms, state nationality and so on, and a couple were in the next aisle, and were asked to state their nationality for the paperwork. They were asked if they were British Asian, the rather curt reply came back, No just Asian. I only highlight that as a way of showing that this is the case for many people in Britain, who perhaps have been here a while or recently arrived. They want to hold on to their identity, culture, and language, all the while, expecting everyone else to accept that fact. Virtually all the shops in our area are asian owned, run, very few of the people speak English, or do not acknowledge you in any way, which i find quite offensive. So how do we go on. They won't or can't speak the language of the country they have chosen to make their home, all the while we are supposed to bend over backwards to make everyone welcome.
You can't have this both ways, either be part of the country, it's culture or move somewhere that you do fit into. I wouldn't dream of going to France, Spain, Germany, without having respect for their language, culture, and doing my best to fit in, no matter how difficult that might prove. We know all the stuff about Ex Pat British abroad, cliques, well much of that is changing and thank heavens it is.

[sp1814]

em10

I absolutely APPLAUD the Asian businessmen and women who work 16 hour days to provide for their families.

Also, it is impossible to run a corner shop without a thoroughly good understanding of the language.

Local shopkeepers need to understand business tax laws, health and safety directives, stock control etc etc...

Also, they provide jobs and a vital service for local communities (this is something one should always remember at 8pm at night when you realise you've run out of rosemary, garlic or basil - happens to us all at one time).

You mention your experience with your (let's use the collective term) 'moody Asians'.

That's your experience...mine is 180 degrees the opposite way. I have a street near me which has two Asian grocers, a newsagent and Persian restaurant and a greek takeaway.

All lovely people (apart from the youngest girl in the newsagent who is a typical moody teenager).

I know them all by name, and we all joke around.

With virtually no effort, you can become chatty with your local business people and neighbours.

I, however, have the advantage of growing up in an extremely mixed neighbourhood - so when I meet someone, I'm more interested in their quirks (music tastes, films, whether they are into football), rather than putting race labels on them...I suppose it's because the more you hang around people of different racial/national backgrounds, the more you realise that the good people to jerk ratio is pretty much the same all over.

[THECORBYLOON]

sp, I used the site's search facility and typed in "sp1814 anotheoldgit black englishman" and it showed two hits, this thread and the one I quoted. It is typical of anotheoldgit's racist views, although he says some of us do not know the true definition of racist. Since he won't tell us what his definition of racist is, I'll use Chambers' definition,

"racism noun 1 hatred, rivalry or bad feeling between races. 2 belief in the inherent superiority of a particular race or races over others, usually with the implication of a right to be dominant. 3 discriminatory treatment based on such a belief. racist noun, adj. "

[emmie]

SP
didn't get the chance to look at this until now,
my experience is totally different from yours, the people who run these
convenience stores are not moody but usually sullen and rude.
They may have to know the language about law, health and safety, but
they will not speak with you, even if you try pleasantries which i have done over time.
This is now an area with a high asian influence, all shops are asian owned, run, they do not employ more than two in each shop, and those are asians, not anyone else. I don't shop there any more as i don't care to have my change shoved at me, no courtesy when buying goods, mostly they are on their mobiles, so unlikely you will get anything approaching a thank you.
Nor would i rush out and buy something late at night, if haven't got it too bad. So our experiences are poles apart, but i am not alone in my experiences, and that is from friends who have expressed a similar opinion to mine. They are not all WASPS either.

[jaceyf]

we should not use the red cross on a white background as an English emblem, this is the cross that caused a lot of resentment to this present day. It is the emblem of the Vatican led crusades that killed and tortured tens of thousands, including christians, in the name of the pope, the Roman Catholic church and the Western world.