Is the Independent Police Complaints Commission a waste of time?

[Gromit]

The police marksman who shot Mark Duggan dead and 30 other officers are refusing to be interviewed by the official investigation into the incident which triggered the summer riots across England. [i

[i] David Lammy, the MP for Tottenham, condemned the officers' refusal to be interviewed by the IPCC. "It is unacceptable that the police officers have not made themselves available for interview and it is unacceptable that the IPCC does not have the power to compel them to do so. ]

Something to hide perhaps? The process is now just a waste of time. Whatever the IPCC conclude, their investigation will not be believed as thorough.

[Davethedog]

If a criminal charge is bought those 30 officers will be compelled to make statements.

[Gromit]

And criminal charges are less likely to be brought if no one involved will say anything.

[Baldric]

One law for them,
Another law for us, enforced by them!

[ludwig]

If the IPCC can't compel officers to take part in an enquiry then it does seem to be a bit of a lame duck.

[anotheoldgit]

It is interesting to note that in Gromit's quest of attacking the police he was a little hesitant to give the full facts, so much so that he failed to obey the ED's suggestion that news stories should carry a link to them.

However I have taken the opportunity to correct this, by providing a Guardian link no less.

http://www.guardian.c...uggan-met-refuse-ipcc

/// Peter Smyth, chair of the Met branch of the Police Federation, criticised the IPCC and said officers deserved the same legal protections as members of the public. "Officers are entitled to know if they are being treated as suspects or witnesses. If the IPCC makes that decision clear, then officers would further co-operate and be interviewed as witnesses and back up their original statements." ///

[Gromit]

AOG

I did not attack the Police, I said the IPCC was a waste of time.

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

/// I did not attack the Police, I said the IPCC was a waste of
time. ///

IPCC, Independent POLICE Complaints Commission.

By saying the IPCC was a waste of time, you were in fact inferring that the Police has got off lightly over the shooting of Mark Duggan.

So the same thing really.

[Gromit]

Don't be daft AOG. The IPCC are independent of the police as the name implies.

I am not saying the police have got off lightly because the IPCC have yet to report its findings. I am saying that whatever it reports is compromised by the fact that 30 witnesses have not been interviewed.

[Hymie]

Yes.

[d9f1c7]

So much fuss over a dead drug dealer, rejoice For Funks Sake, one less piece of slime on the streets. Why do lefties bend over backwards for the bad guys?

[Zeuhl]

d9

One either believes in the rule of law or one doesn't.

It appears that you don't or are at least 'flexible' on the matter.

That is a slippery slope.

[Gromit]

^ ^ ^ ^

Because if we do not want to live in a place where the police are free to execute people. If that is what you want, I suggest you move the South America.

[anotheoldgit]

Yes but he asks an interesting question "Why do the Left seem to protect the bad guys".

[Zeuhl]

Why is expecting our police officers to obey the law 'protecting bad guys'?

Surely law breakers are 'bad guys' full stop.

[d9f1c7]

I agree with the rule of law but the point is valid, time and again on here the left highlight the plight of the bad guys whilst never bothering to mention equivalent cases in the general population.

[Zeuhl]

d9

the left highlight the plight of the bad guys

that seems a very generalised point.

the specific point in this OP is that we rely on integrity and lawful behaviour from our police and an independent enquiry to confirm that is happening seems to be hampered by a lack of cooperation from officers.

[Gromit]

It depends on your definition of 'bad guys'.

A drug dealer is a bad guy. Someone who shoots someone unlawfully is a bad guy. Just because he may be wearing a uniform does not make him exempt from the law. If the IPCC finds Duggan was unlawfully killed then those responsible should face criminal charges.

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

/// If the IPCC finds Duggan was unlawfully killed then those responsible should face criminal charges. ///

It is dependant on what you class as an unlawful killing.

If the Police went out to deliberately kill Duggan yes then that would be murder, and they should face the full extent of the law just the same as the rest of us.

But then why would they go out specifically to murder him?

If he was killed accidentally i.e. as an innocent bystander, or the gun went off accidentally, then that would not be classed an unlawful killing, rather an accidental killing.

Knowing Duggan's previous criminal background and the fact that he was being chased by armed police and there was also a handgun involved, it would be more reasonable to conclude that he was killed by the police in the execution (pardon the pun) of their duty.

[Zeuhl]

I think that's all fine Old Git

The issues are:

we shouldn't assume the police did the right thing just because they are police
we mustn't not care whether they did the right thing just because MD was a 'bad guy'
due process must examine the facts and confirm the truth

Clearly, even if MD's death wasn't justified, one would expect that officers in a difficult situation would be allowed reasonable 'room for error'

[Gromit]

It is worth remembering that the police shot one of their own men during this botched raid.