Lesson for Cameron from Sarkozy defeat

[Gromit]

France has rejected a Conservative Austerity Government. A weak economy and rising unemployment just like here has been ditched by the French people. A desperate lurch to court the far right failed miserably.

Many are urging Cameron down the same path. That can only lead to failure. The British Coalition Government has to listen and not resign a generation of young people to long unemployment. The Coalition must go for growth and not let us wallow in a double dip recession.

Can Cameron Survive? Will the Coalition run the full term? Will they learn the lessons from France?

[Gromit]

DT,

From your own Guardian link above.

// The planning was aborted after Brown declared the UK economy was not ready to join the euro due to insufficient convergence between the two economies. //

Night night.

[DTCwordfan]

How devious can you be; his intent was always to join - Do I have to remind you of his key address to the House on this:

http://www.talktalk.c...etests_statement.html

Though I would accept that the pragmatics limited the action, thank God, in retrospect - but less of the bull that GB was not pro Euro.

[DTCwordfan]

Anyway history is bunk (to some extent) and by the end of this month,the Euro will be up its own anus....

[jno]

Blair was probably in favour of joining the euro. Brown was not. So we didn't.

Actually, there's an argument that it was Ed Balls who convinced Brown to stay away. And it was Martin Wolf who convinced Ed Balls.

http://www.guardian.c...hn-major-davidcameron

Odd how people loathe Brown and Balls for saving their country.

[Gromit]

The five tests were instigated to frustrate our joining the Euro not to make it happen.

If he wanted to us to join, why would he self impose obstacles?

I have no love of the Euro, but your predicted demise I fear is just wishful thinking. And if it does collapse, there will be no 'stepping on the accelerator' for growth as we will have no one to export to.

[DTCwordfan]

well on the first part I propose that we will agree to disagree...On the second part, I hope that you are right but I fear that we are witnessing the catalysts that will tip the Euro bucket over.

The markets in the the Far East open very shortly and most of the EU and the States is open tomorrow....we will have some early sighters.

[DTCwordfan]

Definitely good night now.

[Quizmonster]

Why are right-wingers always harping on about "the financial legacy we inherited from Labour"? Coalition MPs have now just become automatons during interviews, clearly under orders to parrot the above phrase or some minor variant thereof every time they are on our TV screens. Why do they never honestly blame any of the financial crisis of 2008 on their own "paymasters", the casino bankers? Gordon Brown did not advise Northern Rock to buy American sub-prime debt and nor did he suggest to Fred the Shred that he ought to try to buy up every bank he thought he could get his mitts on!
Why don't they add that a recession refers to two successive quarters of negative growth? Labour certainly have to take some blame for 2008, but they weren't in power last September, were they? So, whose fault is it that we are in our current parlous state?
And why do their back-benchers keep blaming the Lib-Dems for "holding them back" from the wonderful policies they would espouse if it weren't for them? Don't they grasp that - if it weren't for the Lib-Dems - they wouldn't even BE in power?

“Hard-of-thinking” would seem to be a rational diagnosis!

[emmie]

because we did, and there is no getting away from the fact that with a socialist President installed things may well be a lot different from the hand holding between Sarkhozy and Merkel.

[emmie]

had Labour still be in power do you think they would have made a better fist of the economy, or would it be as always spend your way out of a recession. Leading to ever more debt, and a bigger crisis than we have now.
The next few months will be interesting, Greece and Spain are in dire trouble, France isn't going to keep on with these massive austerity measures, at least going on Monsieur Hollandes messages over the last while. The French people won't tolerate it, so where does that leave the alliance between France and Germany?

[emmie]

jno, if you don't have enough money coming in on a weekly, monthly basis, to repay loans, they are spread out so it not like you repay immediately, then you shouldn't do it.
Planning finances isn't easy, but it's a damn sight harder if you close your eyes and ears and say yes to large loans, which you know in your mind aren't going to be repaid, at least not in one's lifetime. Banks, mortgage lenders are businesses and want their money back, with enough interest to make it worth their while. So my advice is don't borrow.

[youngmafbog]

The something for nothing, and its 'not y fault' socialists are all out in force.

Lets see if he can actually deliver. I doubt it, the Germans hold the purse strings and unlike the UK are not afraid to use it.

Expect to see Greece go and possibly one or two of the basket cases.

Whilst all the socialists are jumping for joy they are forgetting tweo things. 1) they only won by a smal majority and 2) they have now reignited the far right - Great, thats all we needed.

[anotheoldgit]

youngmafbog, sums it up perfectly with these words:

/// they have now reignited the far right ///

This is going to be the danger now, they were rising in strength during Sarkozy's Presidency, how will they react under a Socialist Presidency?

Will France now offer a welcoming hand to the World's immigrants, which will in turn lead to unrest not only in France, but also create a problem for the UK, as they gather around Calais waiting to slip into England?

[Gromit]

The French Socialists haven't ignited yhe far right. For the socialist to win in France (which they rarely do, the Conservatives have to lose votes. Most go to the Socialists, but a few go to the extreme right.

The win may be a poisoned chalis as they are inheriting a mess from the Conservatives. Hollande has always supported the austerity, he just thinks there should also be some stimulous to encourage growth as well. He says it is not a choice between austerity and spending, but a bit of both is the right path. In the UK we have austerity and no plan for growth (not one that works anyway), so we are back to square one and gripped by recession again.

France will not be a problem, but the Greeks have banished the austerity supporting parties from their coalition so there is a worry that they will not fulfil their debt payments. Another election is likely there in a few weeks.

[jno]

the Socialists reignited the far right? Er, the Socialists haven't been in power. Sarkozy has. And yet you're blaming the opposition? Nice try.

[anotheoldgit]

jno

/// the Socialists reignited the far right? Er, the Socialists haven't been in power. Sarkozy has. And yet you're blaming the opposition? Nice try. ///

I don't know who's post you are accusing of saying that, but as far as I can see no one has said "the socialist reignited the far right".

What was said "they have 'NOW' reignited the far right" meaning that now the Socialist are in power 'they have now reignited the far right'.

Everyone is aware that until yesterday the Socialists haven't been in power. Sarkozy has.

So what is your problem?

[jake-the-peg]

If Hollande makes a sucess of France with increased spending it will badly hurt Cameron and Osbourne's - "There is no plan B" line of attack.

If it goes badly then they'll be able to point to France and say "See that's what would happen"

The most important thing now is the relationship with Germany.

I do think that anybody predicting the Euro's demise should buy us all a drink every-time it doesn't happen!

I've lost count of the failed predictions of it's imminant collapse!

[jno]

aog, I was referring to youngmafbog's post; but he was wrong. The far right was reignited under Sarkozy - have you forgotten that the FN gained its biggest-ever first-round vote last month, while he was still in power? (Well, you haven't, because you mentioned it yourself.)

[percypineapple]

Quizmonster,
Just what i said. the tories should stop blaming others and show the country what they can do if they are so clever. I get the impression that had the tories been in power instead of labour, we would all have died of starvation whilst they were trying to save the economy.

[Gromit]

The far rights votes did not come from the Socialists they came from people who had previously voted for Sarkozy's Party. Blaming Hollande for people deserting Sarkozy is like blaming Boris for reigniting the Green Party by letting them come third in the London Mayoral contest.