Is it impossible to be white and a criminal?

[sp1814]

You'd have thought so by the indignation that some people feel when they are pulled out for a random search in airports.

http://www.dailymail....urity-Wear-burka.html

Look at the responses - 'the humilation I felt', 'the indignity of a pat down search, all to ensure security staff aren't seen as racist.

Should airport security focus their efforts exclusively on black and Muslim travellers? Should white travellers queue in a separate lane to everyone else? s

Perhaps a form of airport apartheid?

[naomi24]

^^Quite right.

[jomifl]

At present the likelihood of a suicide bomber being white is vanishingly small. However as soon as airport security shows any bias, al quaeda and similar organisations will take advantage and choose their 'operatives accordingly.

[naomi24]

We should never be complacent.

http://www.telegraph....s-a-bombers-wife.html

[barcelonic29]

@jomifl
Actually quite a few British Muslim terrorists are white converts.

Naomi i think i may have lost you in my last post.

Firstly, you say, " I didn’t say I didn’t know what you meant by white British Nationals ". I had not claimed that you said such a thing; I merely said that, " I think that really you DO know what I mean by white british nationals " because you'd remarked about entry visas and of course that group would not require them.

In the second instance you've misunderstood even more I'm afraid. You've (somewhat rudely) asked me "what on earth I'm talking about" so I shall try to paraphrase for you. I have tried to say that some white British nationals do not make the distinction between the nationalities of say, Indians & Pakistanis, Saudis & Egyptians, Kenyans & Somalis. So unfortunately when anti-Muslim sentiment increased in the UK, nearly as many non-Muslims of certain nationalties were seen the same way people saw Muslims. Such racism is born of ignorance.

I am not referring to Indian-Brits or non-Muslim Asians as being a part of the group whose feelings towards Islam have worsened; it is the opposite. I am saying that these people are ever-so-frequently considered Muslim in the UK by white British nationals because they do not identify their nationality and only their skin colour. An example of such ignorance would be a Sikh being racially profiled at an airport because he is wearing a turban (which of course if not Muslim attire).

You say, "However, since he mistakenly assumes the Kenyan Christian is Muslim, he isn’t racist – he’s wary."

I say: He is ignorant for making the assumption when he does not know the religion or nationality of this person. He may too be wary, but he is ignorant for being so. I do not expect you to agree with me Naomi, but I ask you to please understand I am not implying you have said anything - I'm only trying to say what I think.

[LazyGun]

This is veering off topic rather wildly, but I was struck by some rather sensational comments made by Barcelonic in one of their posts.

They said -[i]In my opinion it is a crime to sell massive quantities of defective drugs to a third world nation, knowing that it will kill millions in the process, just to save the expense the comapny has invested in their R&D. <br/> We can all agree with that, I am sure. Its this next bit that seems an extraordinary claim to me - [iI remember such a case. A 'big pharma' company had sold the drug shipment to a French company because the FDA had banned the drug in the US. These I believe were AIDS drugs with fatal side effects. Many people died, including young children, but the company was not held accountable for this.]

I can find no references anywhere to this, so I would appreciate some further details and links.

[naomi24]

Barcelonic29, //Naomi i think i may have lost you in my last post.//

Actually, I think you’ve lost yourself, but nevertheless I’ll continue.

//Firstly, you say, " I didn’t say I didn’t know what you meant by white British Nationals ". I had not claimed that you said such a thing; I merely said that, " I think that really you DO know what I mean by white british nationals " because you'd remarked about entry visas and of course that group would not require them.//

Then why the emphasis on //I think that really you DO know what I mean by white british nationals//? There was no question of my misunderstanding what white British Nationals are - and where did I indicate that white British Nationals would require entry visas. That’s nonsense.

//In the second instance you've misunderstood even more I'm afraid. You've (somewhat rudely) asked me "what on earth I'm talking about" so I shall try to paraphrase for you. I have tried to say that some white British nationals do not make the distinction between the nationalities of say, Indians & Pakistanis, Saudis & Egyptians, Kenyans & Somalis. So unfortunately when anti-Muslim sentiment increased in the UK, nearly as many non-Muslims of certain nationalties were seen the same way people saw Muslims. Such racism is born of ignorance. //

Don’t be afraid, and I’m sorry if my response came across as rude, but I don't know where you get your statistics from and I really don’t know what you’re talking about. I understand that people mistake non-Muslims for Muslims, and I’ve given you the reasons why white British Nationals (and, incidentally, others) are suspicious of Muslims, but I repeat, Islam isn’t a race – and therefore it’s the height of ignorance to assume that any perceived prejudice towards Islam is racist. What race does a Muslim belong to – and what colour is he?

//I am not referring to Indian-Brits or non-Muslim Asians as being a part of the group whose feelings towards Islam have worsened; it is the opposite.//

I know that. I don’t think you’ve read and understood my posts.

// I am saying that these people are ever-so-frequently considered Muslim in the UK by white British nationals because they do not identify their nationality and only their skin colour. //

I know that too - and I don't believe that white British nationals are the only culprits - and for the reasons I’ve given that is hardly surprising.

//An example of such ignorance would be a Sikh being racially profiled at an airport because he is wearing a turban (which of course if not Muslim attire).//

English, Scots, Welsh, and Irish people are profiled at airports, and rightly so, so why not profile someone who appears to be Sikh? People have been known to disguise themselves in all sorts of ways to conceal their identities - even under burkas.

//You say, "However, since he mistakenly assumes the Kenyan Christian is Muslim, he isn’t racist – he’s wary."

I say: He is ignorant for making the assumption when he does not know the religion or nationality of this person. He may too be wary, but he is ignorant for being so. I do not expect you to agree with me Naomi, but I ask you to please understand I am not implying you have said anything - I'm only trying to say what I think.//

That’s precisely the point. He doesn’t know – so should he wait until the bomb is detonated before harbouring suspicions? I don’t think so. Rather a Sikh, or a Christian priest, or a Jewish Rabbi, or a Buddhist monk, or myself, be pulled from a queue than take a chance. You trust our enemies if you want to - but I don't.

[DaisyNonna]

Do not care what age, sex, religion or colour one is. A pat down search must always be humiliating. The thought of it makes me want to gag. No wonder I no longer want to fly abroad.

[naomi24]

Daisy, why is it humiliating? I simply don't understand why anyone would be humiliated. If it's in the interests of my safety, I couldn't give a hoot about it.

[DaisyNonna]

My body is mine. Not for public consumption. I bore two children. Have been in hospital and had operations. Touched by medical personnel. Anybody else, no way.

[askyourgran]

Gee Daisy, what would you do if they pulled you out of a queue? They'd haul you off straight away if you kicked up a fuss about being frisked.

[naomi24]

Daisy, Many of us have been there and done that - but I still don't understand why, if it's in the interests of safety, it is 'humiliating'. These people are doing a job; they don't know me, and I don't know them, so I do what is necessary, and forget it instantly - and I'm sure they forget me instantly too. It's not a problem.

[ummmm]

I couldn't care less either. I'm always setting alarms off for some reason.

[naomi24]

Me too ummmm - and I never know why.

[DaisyNonna]

Have no intention of flying abroad. To me it would be a problem. OK for some people to cover faces and bodies. Why not OK to object to body being touched?

[barcelonic29]

@LazyGun found this for ya... http:// www .youtube.com/watch?v=cphkD-9NUe8
I broke it up in case the site embeds it and takes up even more space. You are right about this going OT btw.

@Naomi You are confused and you think I am confused. But let us wrap this up for the sake of the OP.
The OP refers to racism then asks if "black and Muslim" travellers should be kept in a separate line.
I use the term racist also and yet somehow the way I used the word garnered more of your attention. In my opinion nationalism can often be racism. When people start believing people from their nation should have more rights than people from another in my eyes it is racist. We can squabble all day over the definition of racism but ultimately i doubt many would be concerned about white, affluent, British ex-pats coming home and taking a British job.
I'm guessing you are an American but I don't mean to be presumptuous. But Naomi yes, those enemies you speak of are no enemies of mine. They (Al-Qaeda) are enmies of my country and my government, and I may well be evemies of them but they are NOT enemies of mine. They do NOT 'terrorise' me; mostly because so few people actually die from terrorism in the West. If I'm right roughly 500 Americans a year die from 'terrorism' according to the US. Take a look at this and you'll see exactly how small that number is compared to how much money and resources are thrown at the problem... http:// www .cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm
Now Naomi, please take a look at these stats... http:// newsblaze.com /story/20090221100148tsop.nb/topstory.html

I don't know muich to be honest, but there is one thing I do know: a great way to create or enlarge a terrorist problem is to be "wary" of ALL Muslims. Another good way is to be wary of those who even 'might be' Muslims. Create a divide.
Naomi I will only attempt to explain this to you one last time...
I said, "In my experience growing up in the UK among mostly white British nationals my personal experience has been one of witnessing changing attitudes among this group to Muslims - particularly after 9/11 and then 7/7 in the UK. "
You said, "People’s attitudes don’t change the moment they have their entry visas stamped, which is what you appear to be implying. "
I beg of you to quote this perceived implication you speak of! It is clear that you somehow think I am referring to one group when in fact I am referring to the other.
Considering your record thus far Naomi, I will assume you feel urged to respond to me again so I will gladly continue it on a discussion forum or something but we have digressed from the topic somewhat.
Bear in mind Naomi that despite the fact that I am as convinced that you are confused as you are that I am confused, yet I have not been rude about it because in such a situation one is confused and one isn't, and it is rather ignorant not to concede that it could be oneself.

[FredPuli43]

Anyone remember the boy scout? There was a white man who kept passing through entirely unchecked. He was wearing the outfit of a scout leader. He kept on with his running until someone noticed how odd it was that he kept appearing frequently but never had any boy scouts with him, or any obvious reason for coming in so often, and he got stopped and checked.

Surely the reason for checks being so obvious and annoying is to reassure the public, first and foremost. People like to see that measures are being taken and the more there are, the more they feel reassured. That the checks involve searching or screening white- haired old ladies rfom say, Leamington Spa, only reinforces public confidence, absurd though that the check may be. If they are checking her, then they must be thorough!

The reality is that drug busts are on information received or, occasionally, when mules cannot give good accounts of their international movements , or their documents are false, and that leads investigators to dealers or to finding drugs in or on the mule. The chances of a bomber being found simply on random checks must be remote in the extreme.

[LazyGun]

@ Barcelonic - Thanks for the link - unfortunately, it appears to be broken, or m version of google is :) Would you mind reposting, or posting the name of the clip, or some other means of searching for it? Thanks....

[naomi24]

Barcelonic29, we’ve agreed that Islam is not a race, and we’ve agreed that some people are mistaken for Muslims, but since Muslims come in all colours and all nationalities, anyone who is wary of Muslims is not racist – he is simply wary of Muslims. Racism relates to race – not religion.

I’ve already apologised if I came across as rude – but actually the boot appears to be on the other foot. I’m not quite sure what you mean by my ‘record’, and because you disagree with me you consistently tell me you’re ‘explaining’ things to me which is rather patronising, don’t you think? And you are presumptuous. I’m English, I have experience of the effects of Islamic terrorism, and I think it’s understandable that people – and it’s not just the white indigenous Brits as you seem to think - have, since 9/11, become suspicious of Muslims - but please don’t feel obliged to continue the discussion because I will not change my opinion.

[naomi24]

Daisy, no one has said it’s not ok to decide not to fly because of the checks. It’s a personal choice.

Fred, //The chances of a bomber being found simply on random checks must be remote in the extreme.//

You’re right , but without the checks a few might chance it, so it’s prevention rather than cure.

[emmie]

when bombs go off, they kill indiscriminately, all colours, creeds, religions, so anyone planting one can equally be within those same criteria.