Should the police be armed and allowed to shoot to kill in such circumstances?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail....pub-summer-riots.html

Here we have a group of thugs purposely out to entice the police into a confrontation, and then to attack them with missiles and shoot at no only the police on the ground but also in the air.

/// 'The purpose of all this was not to loot or to steal. Nor was it mindless vandalism. The purpose, the common purpose, was to behave in such a way that the police would come to the scene and then to attack the police.'The intention was to endanger
life. ///

One has to ask why, did they expect to get away with their crimes, or was this a 'death wish'?

Are our prisons such comfortable places that they are now 'fighting' to get locked-up?

[redman41]

These thugs with guns would have thought twice about rioting if the Police had been armed and retaliated by shooting back.
The whole Police investigation could quite easily have ended up as a murder inquiry....

[Canary42]

Probably, with appropriate safeguards to protect the innocent.

[humbersloop]

In such circumstances, I thought currently they can be is the anwer to both.

[pdq1]

Its a pity the parents can't be deported for bringing such low life into a once peaceful country.

[venator]

It's a slippery slope. If the police are armed much of the time, the street yobboes would feel the need to "even things up"

Then what - armed traffic wardens?

[sir.prize]

pdq1 - ten out of ten for that.

[rowanwitch]

but paint or dye bombs would make tracking them later a whole lot easier.....

[venator]

pdq1 - the joke is they and their parents are probably UK citizens.

If they weren't, the Mail wouldn't have missed a good immigrant bashing angle.

Having said that, these guys appear completely worthless, and there's nothing much our glorious country can do about it, apart from giving them a nice house and regular handouts...

[venator]

I think the French police used to drive through this kind of mob, and after warning them, they fired water cannon loaded with indelible purple dye.

They went round later and rounded up any purple people.

Of course, it ruined their designer clothes and trainers...

[sp1814]

pdq1 - what???

Seriously?

In answer to the question...I'm sure I've seen polls in 'The Job' (I've got mates in the Met) and the majority of beat bobbies actually don't want to be armed.

The answer in the case you've highlighted is to get the armed response units deployed quick time.

If someone is carrying and discharging a gun in public, then they are putting lives in danger and have to be stopped as quickly as possible.

The problem with arming ALL police is that you would have to train all police to the standards of the armed response units (also - a fair few police would not be good shots, or even have the 'correct mindset' to be armed...)

[VHG]

>>>pdq1 - the joke is they and their parents are probably UK citizens.

Yes unfortunately we have given away the right to be called "british" far too easily.

1) Lituanian woman comes here because they are in the EU.
2) Nigerian man comes here as an asylum seeker but gets turned down.
3) Lithuanian woman marries Nigerian man so he now has the right to stay here.
4) They have a child who is then "british".

How to give away the honour of being called "british" so lightly.

[sp1814]

VHG

You realise that in practice, the number of people who arrive at British citizenship through...hang on. I've just re-read your post.

Re-read it yourself and see whether you can see the same thing as me.

[sp1814]

Clue: it's really, really obvious!!!

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// The problem with arming ALL police is that you would have to train all police to the standards of the armed response units (also - a fair few police would not be good shots, or even have the 'correct mindset' to be armed...) ///

It works perfectly well for our armed forces, fancy only having 'special units' that were allowed to use weapons?

We are getting into a war type situation with these armed gangs, and we should retaliate in the appropriate way.

[sp1814]

But not all miliary personnel are armed. Also, it's an entirely different job.

Even the most jaded of observed cannot compare the job of a policeman in one of our larger cities to the job of a soldier in Fallujah or Bazra.

[sp1814]

AOG

Also, imagine the culture change that would have to take place within the police. Imagine the red tape. Imagine the vast amounts of money the force would lose in compensation claims when innocent people are inevitably wounded because beat cops have been faced with...

...hang on...I think that's the crux of the issue.

How many times in the past decade have regular local community officers, or traffic police or British transport police officers been in need of firearms?

Does this one story justify a wholesale rethink of hundreds of years of traditional policing techniques?

Aren't the highly trained armed response units enough?

[sir.prize]

But its good to see the trash locked away for a long time.

[humbersloop]

Agree, sir.prize, and through due process.

However, as this aint yet America, I think there are some other questions here, which aren't about arming the police, shooting to kill or being british.

A gang of lads is armed: why, and what's to be done about it?
They want to have a serious go at the police: ditto?

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// Aren't the highly trained armed response units enough? ///

Yes they would be, if only there didn't have to be almost a lengthy inquiry before they were dispatched into these situations.

Regarding your point:

/// How many times in the past decade have regular local community officers, or traffic police or British transport police officers been in need of firearms? ///

I don't think you are naive enough to think that things haven't changed, the present day situation calls for much stronger measures than a whack from a truncheon.

[tonyav]

Simple answer from me, as the old saying go's '' Fight Fire With Fire ''.