Should we rely on mercenaries and foreign troops for our defence?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.mirror.co....20000-soldiers-867279

Because of the huge cuts in our Armed Forces it is reported that we may have to rely on foreign troops and mercenaries for our future defence.

This was the subject in a radio phone-in today, and it was suggested that if the need arose and because of our diminished fighting force, we might have to re-introduce conscription.

Since we are now a multi-ethnic country, how would this work?

Say for instance we had to take sides in a future conflict between India and Pakistan, how then would it affect conscripted troops from these origins, would they be prepared to fight against peoples of their own ancestry?

Yes I know this is all speculation, but stranger things have come to past.

[pdq1]

We are intending to bring 20,000 troops back from Germany. We have 9000 troops in Afghanistan who will return by next year. Many of the barracks in the UK have been sold off for housing. I wonder where they will all go.

Using foreign troops is very cost effective and also our skirmishes in Libya must have saved a packet. We could reduce our forces even further if we had the will.

[anotheoldgit]

pdq1

/// We could reduce our forces even further if we had the will. ///

And what are your views on conscription, if the need did arise?

Would you join the call to arms, when you had that little brown OHMS envelope posted through your door?

[jake-the-peg]

Not really our defense though is it?

we haven't exactly got a huge invasion force of Iraqis or Afghans poised across the channel waiting to invade.

We haven't had to defend these islands for 70 years

It's not about defense it's about foreign wars

And you're the one who wants to bring home all the soldiers the moment the first one steps on a land mine on foreign shores.

And now you want to speculate on sending troops into a war between India and Pakistan!

I think you should start with a more probable scenario like defense against invading Martians!

[boxtops]

It's a fair question thought - if you went to live in say Spain, and you became a resident of Spain and were conscripted at a future date, would you be willing to fight against the UK if the occasion arose?

[wolf63]

Would any possible future conscription include the female half of the population as well?

[coccinelle]

If you become a spanish resident it doesn't mean you have Spanish nationality, you'd still have your British passport so in case of a war against the brits you'd go back to UK

[boxtops]

OK, that's not a good example - but AOG describes people who have come to the UK and no longer have their original passports, but still have a great affinity with their homeland.

[jake-the-peg]

Well there's a pretty easy answer isn't there?

Lets have a ministry for defense

Let's pass into law something that says British armed forces can only be used in defense of UK territory

[anotheoldgit]

jake-the-peg

Why don't you read into things more closely without coming out all guns blazing with your aggressive and sarcastic postings?

We are just having a discussion here and there is no place for such aggressiveness.

We do not just have armed forces to protect just our Islands, they are also there to protect our interests abroad, our commonwealth and other British protectorates, our trading links etc, etc. The Falklands was a good example of this.

My scenario about a future conflict between India and Pakistan is not out of the realms of fantasy, what if Cuba decided to invade the rest of the Caribbean Islands, what if China and Russia started hostilities against the West, North Korea against South Korea, what if we were needed in a call on humanitarian grounds? etc, etc.

Much more possible than your sarcasm regarding invading Martians!

[Clanad]

Ya'll tried that once in the late 1700's, no? Believe they were called Hessians, at least here in the colonies... how'd that work out for you?

[jake-the-peg]

Late 1700's Clanad - that was when the French won your war of independance for you wasn't it?

//just having a discussion//

Really and here was me thinking this was another disingenous posting on race casting aspersians on the loyalty of people from different ethnic backgrounds.

Given that the last terrorist bomb plot was foiled by a very brave British-Yemenii I think you should be ashamed of yourself

http://www.guardian.c...gent-british-al-qaida

[anotheoldgit]

jake-the-peg

It is you who should be ashamed of yourself, especially with your record of anti-British soldier remarks, or do you only support those of a foreign ancestry?

When I suggested that you should read into things more closely, I didn't mean you to also add into it more than what is there already.

What has the separate issue of a very brave British-Yemenii have to do with the attitude of conscripted British ethnic minorities fighting against their own peoples?

This is is in no way a racist question, it is perfectly reasonable question to ask, and we are talking about conscripted forces here not volunteers.

Just answer the question "Would they be loyal to the country they were born and educated in, or loyal to the countries of their forefathers?

Nothing difficult about that, unless you don't want to know the answer.

[Brenden]

I believe they would be loyal to the country of their forefathers - I think the majority hold no allegiance to this country whatsoever - probably in another couple of generations things may alter.

[The-HouseHusband]

Unfortunately the draw down on the forces is due to the need to equip those forces still in Afghan with the correct vehicles and equipment in an attempt to prevent more deaths before we pull out as an offensive force over the next 3 to 5 years. However we will still have a presence for some years as we are still going to be supplying training and mentoring teams for years to come.

The draw down of forces in Germany has been on the cards for a number of years as we do not need a cold war deterrent and have not done so for the past twenty years, the savings involved by basing the troops in the UK will more than make up for the costs of new buildings on the Old Airforce Bases (both UK and USA) that have fallen into a state of dis-repair but are still Ministry of Defence owned land. RAF Cottesmore was closed down at the end of 2011 as an airbase and is already being prepared for the arrival of Army units moving back from Germany.

On the subject of shortages of troops, it would take a lot to get us into the realms of conscription. Many of the shortfalls are filled already by the T.A. and this will continue to happen for many years to come. To actually bring in conscription would mean we were in an actual War and not just a conflict that we have been involved in around the world since the end of WW II.

If a large scale war did break out along the lines of WW II then I am sure that volunteers would be sought before they started to press gang members of the public into uniform. A volunteer is worth at least 20 pressed men. I imagine that if things were to start getting that bad in the world then people would show their allegiance by staying put or heading off to the country of their choice either to join the fight or shelter in a safe haven to avoid the call up. Due to today's multi-cultural society no one can fully predict the out come of a full scale world war.

[Messi_Ten]

It's just like buying in services for the NHS, if you pay them enough, they'll shoot anybody!

[The-HouseHusband]

I think your ideals are slightly twisted Messi_Ten, people may be willing to take the money but when push comes to shove many would freeze when it actually came to pulling the trigger. Just because you give someone lots of money doesn't mean they will be able to do the job in hand, you only have to look at the government and the mess they have made after people voted them in (giving them lots of money in the process!!). Money can not always get the required result unless the person you are paying has had the right training.

[andy-hughes]

The term 'mercenary' is evocative - it implies seriously dodgy individuals who fight for money with no sense of morality whatsoever. The reality is that mercenaries have been used by nations since the dawn of time, and can be seen as perfectly acceptable way of supplementing small fighting forces.

I really don't see the need for a massive fighting force in this day and age. UK forces are not involved in actual defence of the UK, they are involved in seriusly dodgy invasions of nations that have perceived links with terrorism in a sledgehammer/nut scenario, which is proving less than effective, and at a massive cost of finance and humanity.

In order to be able to change this situation, you already have to have proved that you agree with the system as is. I am unlikely ever to make it as Secretary of Defence, because I happen to think that shooting people is wrong.

We should stop trying to pretend we have an Empire to defend, and look realisitically at what we need forces for, and scale them accordingly - which in my view would see the virtual elimination of a UK fighting forcce, and amen to that.