Pussy Riot and the Chess Champion

[jake-the-peg]

Gary Kasparov has just been arrested outside the court where the "Pussy Riot" women were just found guilty.

Video of him being dragged off in the middle of a TV interview- demanding to know why he was being arrested

http://www.bbc.co.uk/...world-africa-19300149

Anybody else think the Russians are doing their international image no good at all or is this a no-nonsense police force that knows how to keep law and order ?

[jake-the-peg]

//Maybe I wouldn't see the difference Jake . Police worldwide are charged with protecting the courts//.

Protecting them from a middle-aged chess champion talking to the press?

[StarBeast]

The "naivity" - comment is really a product of your own "did you vote for a con/lib" coalition question. Clearly begs the question of how would that be possible? Only by having every convceivable combination of coalition on the ballot paper is the answer do forgive me if I attribute less than there is here.

[anotheoldgit]

Some of our hooligans could do with stronger action taken against them.

And if one listens to some, our international image is not very good, so why do we bother?

Let's operate a zero tolerance attitude against our hooligans, we have nothing to lose apparently.

[jake-the-peg]

No Starbeast it does not

You're insisting on jumping to conclusions

we don't have a written constitution and were in clear blue water at the time (otherwise known as making it up as we went along)

There were a number of options

There could have been a referendum for example to legitimise the coalition manifesto

The fact still stands the coalition is carrying out a set of policies for which they have no mandate - many of them quite radical.

[jake-the-peg]

Ah AOG

Another one who is either missing the point or deliberately trying to ignore it in order to talk about "Pussy Riot" and not Gary Kasparov

This isn't about hooligan punks in a church

This is about arresting people in the street who talk say things you don't like

[bazwillrun]

Its uncanny...whenever people dont agree with your point of view they've missed the point.

Protest by punks.....how passe.

Being good russkies I'm sure they knew what they were getting themselves into, so this sentence can hardly be a surprise

[sandyRoe]

They got 2 years each. Seems a bit harsh

[sp1814]

JTP

I think I get your point. AOG is referring to the sentences handed out to Pussy Riot, whereas you're talking about the treatment handed out to Kasparov, right?

Two totally different things in my book.

[DTCwordfan]

Two different issues - I don't have much sympathy for Pussy - and on the back of it, the protests from known people in Russia or abroad - or indeed the unknown.

I can just imagine the hue and cry in the Press and on here if a group of youngsters went into Westminster Abbey and, apart from their song of protest, started shouting "Feck the Queen, Feck the Archbish of Canterbury, Feck the Dean". What would the court term this as a tariff if found guilty?

The issue surely is why are the BBC reporting yet another left-wing biased story and not reporting the other side off the argument?

[DTCwordfan]

sorry one f to many - on "off"!

[ichkeria]

Argostran you aren't by any chance one of these 'Nashi' FSB trolls are you because you sure as he'll sound like one :-) I don't think quoting itar-Tass is going to convince many people. Lots of people (not me) including a lot of Russians feel scandalised by the actions of some members of Pussy Riot for reasons of religious sensibilities and that is entirely understandable. Hoeever they reason also that the charge of inciting religious hatred, together with a custodial sentence, is a draconian nonsense.
This is plainly a message from Putin to the growing opposition movement: mess with us and that's what'll happen. I doubt it will work however.
As for the question if international image that's a very good question. There are those in the kremlin who care about such things, after all the west is where they have all their stolen billions stashed. On the other hand when you have a multi-billion dollar kleptocracy to protect sometimes image has to go out the window.

[argorstran]

Ichkeria - this Sunday , go to a church service in any of Britain's large cathedrals , disrupt the service , stand on the altar and shout repeated profanity against the Queen , The Prime Minister and the Archbishop of Canterbury and let's see what happens .
Here we gave a 4yr sentence to a teenager who blogged about starting a riot but never actually participated in one .

[ichkeria]

You see one reason I wondered about you argorstran is the rather unpleasant and unnecessary remarks of yours about Gary Kasparov. That Dort of blatant anti-semitism is a very Russian trait. Forgive me :-)
Yes of course if I did all that I would be in trouble but I don't think I'd be put on a show trial because of it charged with inciting religious hatred and undermining the state. But then I realise Rissia is a deeply ximonservatuve country saddled with a near-fanatical religious establishment. I also realise that there is a near mystical association in the minds of many Russian people
between church and state. I also am well aware that Putin knows very well how to play on such a state of affairs, backed by a supine judiciary.
I agree that the sentence if 4 years for the two Facebook rioters was harsh. But they really were trying to start a riot. A real one not a Pussy one.

[argorstran]

The point I was trying to make about Kasparov/synagogue is that he was defending pussy riot , so OK , let's see him behave like that in his own congregation . If that came across as antisemitic or if any Jewish ABers were offended then I unreservedly apologise .

[ichkeria]

It just came across - to me at any rate - as a bit weird and unnecessary to give his Jewish name. Kasparov is pilloried in the Russian media for his Jewishness. That was all. I was merely remarking on the similarities. On Pussy Riot I'd only repeat what I said above: that interestingly many many Russians while disapproving to say the least of their actions do identify with the anti-Putin aspect of their protest. I fancy the cat is out of the bag now (to quote Kasparov himself in a recent interview) and that these protests will continue to grow

[mike11111]

Argostran is quite right. Whether you like it or not, disruption of divine worship is, and has been for a long time, a crime which attracts a sentence of imprisonment.

[ichkeria]

Really? Examples?

[mike11111]

"Section 36 of the Offences Against the Persons Act 1861 makes it an offence to, amongst other things, use "threats or force, obstruct or prevent or endeavour to obstruct or prevent, any clergyman or other minister in or from celebrating divine service or otherwise officiating in any church, chapel, meeting house, or other place of divine worship". There is ample authority for the proposition that the phrase "divine worship" extends beyond the services conducted by the Church of England and, given the Segerdal test noted in para 55 in relation to the 1860 Act, it may probably be argued that the phrase extends to all theistic, including probably polytheistic, religions. However the phrase seems to exclude from the protection of the Act both non-theistic religions where there is no worship of the divine and also religions, such as the Religious Society of Friends, that do have divine worship but do not have persons who are, or who are analogous to, clergymen or ministers. The exclusion of non-theistic religions may be problematic following the implementation of the Human Rights Act 1998. Granting special protection to clergymen and ministers but not to those, such as people attending a Quaker meeting, who are engaged in ministering without being formally designated as ministers, may not be acceptable under the 1998 Act."

[ichkeria]

plus sorry forgot to add they weren't charged with 'disruption' of dicons worship' anyway (because they didn't interrupt divine worship) but hooliganism inciting religious hatred.

[ichkeria]

You're quoting a British law from 1861??
Whereas we're talking about a different offence in a different country. Of course a further issue is that there is no rule of law in Russia in the way we would understand it but I accept that that is only partially relevant