Robert Thompson

[twiglet4frog]

It was in the People paper (although probably made most of it up) that RobertThompson that tortured and murdered Jamie Bulger (with an acomplice Venebles) was now dating a girlfriend and was keeping his secret hidden.

Should the Police or Courts be allowed to intervene and force him to reveal his past to anyone he is romantically involved with?

I am not going along the chain of thought of "he should never be allowed to live a normal life for what he did" arguements but more a case of he was convicted of killing and torturing a young child with serious malice and the girlfriend he is with doesnt know about this and wants to marry and have children with him. Should she be allowed to know about him before she has a child by him and hands the young child into his arms, or leaves him to babysit it? Or does he still have the right to keeping his identity safe now matter what the circumstance as the courts and governemnt have said?

Do we do enough to safeguard and protect the innocent or do we allow the rights of terrible criminals to get in the way?

[bernardo]

No way!  He should be allowed his privacy and to be allowed to get on with his life as normally as possible.  If his grirlfriend were to find out, it would cause huge emotional difficulties and potentially practical security problems if they were to split up.

Their crime was commited when they were 10, which is a huge distance from 22.  They will continue to be punished by their own consciences forever, and any other disruption to their lives apart from that would be counter-productive.

[oxeyedaisy]

i think she should be told..and make her own mind up no one can say he wouldnt do something similar again..maybe he wouldnt... but its still a skeleton in the cupboard ,and his girlfriend has a right to know..its allmost the same as if a woman met a peadophile and didnt know ..married him had children and then he abused the children..if she knew from the start it would be her own personal choice...from a womans point of view it would be decietfull not to be told from the start..

[Oneeyedvic]

Firslty, he has carried out his sentance.

Secondly, he is now a young man as opposed to a child.

Personally, I think he should be allowed to 'go free' and spend his time as Bernardo says being punished by his own conscience.

Oxeyedaisy - curious as to what crimes should be predisclosed - is it just murder and paedophilia - or should petty crimes be taken into account eg drunk & disorderly on a Saturday night, shoplifting, driving under the influence etc etc. (hardly a good role model for a child).

That said - if he should commit any sort of similar offense he should be locked up forever with no chance of parole

[londondave]

He should have been sterilised and banned from adoption/fostering or being anywhere near kids. they should have kept him in for life.

[Lillabet]

It's a really hard question to answer. Personally I think that if the relationship does get to the point where they are considering marriage and / or kids I would want to know.

It is likely to have an impact on your life - he is to be monitored for life. Any contact with kids in particular. If they had children and they wanted a sleepover or similar then his probation worker would have to be involved and give approval. Plus certain jobs - including childcare etc require enhanced disclosure where not only your background but also your partner's background may be checked (especially if you want to be a childminder working from home...) If the relationship is serious then she has a right to know.

However he has served his sentence and been released on life licence. What he did was horrific but only as horrific as numerous other murders where the culprits on release do not have to have false identities imposed and aren't hounded by the papers. The paper seemed to be demanding that he introduce himself by saying that he was Robert Thompson who killed James Bulger and that nothing less would be acceptable. This would totally undermine the concept of being given a new identity...

Basically I think she has a right to be told and to make her choices based on the truth. However the newspapers have no right to force the issue or to tell her. The People seem to me to be entirely irresponsible. The headline was something like Bulger Slayer Scandal. The scandal was: 23 year old man has a girlfriend.... I remember a few years ago when the book about Mary Bell came out - the tabloids told her daughter about her mother's past. To me that is unforgiveable.

[BigDogsWang]

As the father of a small boy, I totally disagree with you. I feel physically sick that this disgusting individual is allowed to roam free. To think of the horrifying pain and confusion that poor little boy went through at the hands of these two psychopaths brings me to tears. If they were of this mindset when they were 10, I�m afraid it�s only going to manifest itself. We all larked about when we were kids, but torture and murder NEVER crossed my mind at that age.
Would you want your daughter to be romantically linked with him? Would you want him raising your grandchildren?

[MargeB]

I love the criminal justice system in the UK:

1) YOU MUST CHANGE!

2) WE DON'T REALLY ACCEPT THE POSSIBILITY THAT YOU CAN!

3) REPEAT ad infinitum

Would you hold yourself responsible for something you did when you were 12?

[BigDogsWang]

'aw bless em, they were only kids having a laugh. All part of growing up. Did you never chop a small boy in half on a railway track when you were young?'

[Lillabet]

I think we need to accept the possibility that people can change. The Mary Bell case is the closest comparison in the UK. She has brought up a now teenage daughter and has not been a danger to children since her release.

I know many many people think the sentences should have been longer. But they weren't. The reality is that Thompson and Venables have been ruled to have served their sentence and been released.

My problem with the current system is that the media pick up on and highlight certain cases. Sometimes because they are grotesquely horrible. BUT not all grotesque cases are highlighted in this way. It leads to a two tier system whereby some criminals are tried by the judicial system and some (almost arbitrarily) by the judicial system and the media.

Each year a number of children are convicted of murder / manslaughter. Each year young children are horrifically murdered and suffer. (Statistically you are more likely to be murdered before your first birthday than at any other time in your life) Not all killers are treated equally. Some enter the public consciousness. Most are barely reported and soon forgotten.

If life means life was applied for all I would have less of an objection than I do to this current system. The judicial system is meant to be fair and impartial. Similar crimes and similar circumstances are meant to be treated comparably. The influence of media pressure threatens this.

If my partner had a massive secret in their past I would hope they would share it with me and allow me to make my own decisions based on full information. I genuinely don't see what concern it is of The People newspaper.

[londondave]

Well see how you feel if it happens to your kids or your sisters kids or your brothers kids.

[smudge]

I was just about to post the same london dave!

[finex]

Get a grip londondave. You are something like 500 times as likely to cause the death of your own child by simply driving them to school than they are to be killed by strangers. Should we sterilise all parents who have had a child die in a car crash? Perhaps we should chop their hands off so they can't drive ever again? Or maybe we should accept that nasty things happen from time to time.

People are punished for what they did, then released when they are deemed to have served their sentence. If we were talking about someone who killed a middle aged man, and was now released, this wouldn't be an issue, as it wouldn't even have got into the papers. All this "Think of the Children" hysteria is frankly pathetic. It's crap like this in the media that leads to Paediatricians being beaten up by a mob of retarded thugs (this has happened).

[elgroucho]

Looks like Al Murray was correct when he said you automatically become more right-wing when you become a parent.

Does this mean that all people who commit a serious crime should be forced to tell this to everyone they come into close contact with for the rest of their lives?

I'm not for one second condoning what those boys did to that toddler, but you must accept that they were punished and served their sentences.

I agree with the points made by bernardo and MargeB.

[smudge]

My comment to Londondave was in respect of a rude comment from Snoteater, which the AB Ed has now removed.

[londondave]

To finex a car crash is a accident not torture and muder.

elgroucho I am not a parent but I did know someone in my junior school that was kidnapped, murdered and cut up and dumped in a bag in a lake beit 1974.

When it is close to yourself like that you will change your mind about the justice system.

[Lillabet]

I just wanted to disagree with londondave's last answer. Unfortunately I too have had the experience of losing a friend to a brutal murder when she was only a child.

The case didn't get wide media coverage - the culprit - a family member - was arrested very quickly so there were no appeals and so forth to draw the media's gaze.

I still oppose the death penalty and still believe that Thompson and Venables should be able to keep their new identities safely. Though as I said above I would hope that if they do form strong relationships with partners they do confide in them.

In the case of my friend (same class at school, lived over the road, lovely girl) her killer was an adult - with the full maturity that goes with that - not a child who isn't fully developed intellectually or morally. Her death was horrific and her killer will now be free.

He has no fear of The People turning up on his doorstep. What he did was as bad as Thompson. I just believe that like cases should be treated alike. If other murderers etc don't get stalked by the tabloids then neither should Thompson.

He has his conscience to live with that is punishment in itself.

[elgroucho]

londondave, how do you know I haven't experienced something like this? Again you have rushed to judge. At the end of the day there was a choice to be made, either jail the two children for the rest of their lives, or allow them to lead a private life after a few years of re-education/rehab whilst monitoring them for the rest of their lives and making it clear that they would be jailed for life for a future offence.

Your views represent the sort of quick-fix school of doing things. This is a far more difficult topic than that and requires a more reasoned way of solving it than 'lock them up and throw away the key' logic.

[BigDogsWang]

Elgroucho � this was not just a �serious crime�, this was torturous murder of the vilest kind on a human being barely old enough to speak let alone defend himself. This was not �boys being boys�. They are quite obviously evil beyond comprehension, and no amount of �serving time� is going to correct a twisted mind.

[butter1]

I have to agree with Londondave and bigdogswang.  This was a horrible evil act of torture and murder to a helpless boy.  Just because they have spent time in rehab etc and all the rest....does that instantly make them 'safe' to the public?  Whether you have experienced someone close to you being put through a similar horrible ordeal or not....everyone has a difference of opinion.  No one knows what goes through those boys minds now...  I think that people should have a right to lead a normal life after they have committed a crime...but it should depend on the crime they have committed and I believe this crime is pure evil.