The EDL and Anders Breivik

[sp1814]

Will the EDL find it difficult to shrug off its reputation of being an extremist group when members voice support for the mass murderer Anders Breivik?

http://www.guardian.c...breivik?newsfeed=true

[argorstran]

But do they actually want to shrug off this reputation ? -they seem to revel in it .

[Kerosene]

Why do you think they'd even want to shrug off their reputation? No one believes their bogus claims of being a democratic organisation anyway.

It's no different than the BNP pretending that they're an all embracing, welcoming to anybody, outfit, isn't it? We often see Nick Griffin kissing black kids, don't we? Not!

A leopard doesn't change its spots.

[Gromit]

I am bemused to learn the EDL has a 'Jewish Division'.

[naomi24]

Scary!

[emmie]

it is scary because this sort of thing will happen again. the rise as it were of the likes of EDL, isn't limited to Britain, but across the world, groups like these may seem like loons to rational people, sadly they have a growing fan base.

[Gromit]

Not sure the likes of the EDL and The BNP have a growing fan base. The BNP had a terrible general election result. There have always been groups on the extremes, right and left. I do not see any significant rise in their numbers.

[naomi24]

Do we have numbers?

[emmie]

does it have to be 1,000 or 50,000 card carrying members, it doesn't stop many from being sympathisers with the likes of EDL, BNP, i was citing only these, but there are other groups across Europe that have a similar mindset.
Breivik is not the only mad man on the planet, and one day i fear that there will be further atrocities caused by others of a similar political bent.

[emmie]

makes some interesting points, reading if one has the time

http://www.demos.co.uk/about

[Kerosene]

em10,

Sorry, but when I looked at your link and it began by saying "Demos is a think tank", I didn't go any further. The picture conjured up of loads of boffins sitting around a table waffling and pontificating makes me nauseous.

I've seen a lot of life, and people, and have had loads of different experiences, but I have absolutely no faith in those who are just paid to expound copious amounts of hot air and expect it to be adopted as some kind of definitive answer to society's problems.

This kind of approach is pointless, meaningless, and ultimately devoid of any practical solutions to being able to ultimately rein in and control organisations like the EDL or BNP.

The only way to combat such extremist groups is by either rigorously applying existing anti terrorist laws - because this is exactly what these people are - or by having new, more stringent, laws placed on the statute books and enforcing them without compunction.

Stop the talking and actually do something or else we'll be plagued by these extremists for evermore.

Only one small problem - our lily livered MPs will never go for it.

[Gromit]

The BNP has about 4,000 members.
The National Front less than 1,000.
The EDL does not have members. It has supporters, so it is impossible to guage its popularity.

In the 70s, the National Front had 14,000 members.

[naomi24]

Gromit, where do your figures come from? Could it be that like the major political parties, they have more supporters than actual card-carrying members?

[bazwillrun]

"but across the world, groups like these may seem like loons to rational people, sadly they have a growing fan base."

perhaps these people are sick of seeing their national identity and cultural heritage thrown away, ever thought of that ?

[Mick-Talbot]

Define 'member'

The EDL website calls them members

26749 Total members

[Kerosene]

baz

So, how do you define "national identity" and "cultural heritage"?

[Gromit]

MickTalbot,
There is no membership card, no subscription and no list of its 'members'. That is not members, it is supporters.

[Gromit]

Naomi24,

It is difficult to properly compare support over the years for these fringe parties. If we assume the NF of 1974 at the peak of its popularity and the BNP of 2010 are attracting the same voters then 1974=1265 votes per candidate and 2010=1668 votes per candidate. An increase But hardly significant in 60,000 constituencies.

[Gromit]

I just re-read that and it has come out wrong. I did not mean there were 60,000 constituencies. I mean't there were 60,000 voters in an average constituency. (The real average is 68,000).

[humbersloop]

baz //perhaps these people are sick of seeing their national identity and cultural heritage thrown away, ever thought of that ?//

yes, and always wondered at what point their national identity and culture got defined for them. 1066? 1680?

And always wondered, if the answer for them is the EDL, what their question really is.

[Zeuhl]

<sick of seeing their national identity and cultural heritage thrown away>

there is so much presupposition, thoughtless vagueness and sloganising in just those 11 words it's difficult to decide where best to start unpicking it!