Kenneth Clarke RIP ?

[modeller]

Now that Kenneth Clarke has been given a nothing job , will that do anything to toughen up our justice system. He is still sitting at the top table with his wishy washy Lib/Dems friends.

[PipinDorset]

He'll be too busy at the cricket, with his cigars and his brown suede shoes......

[VHG]

>>>will that do anything to toughen up our justice system.

But our prisons are full, and I think we have more people in prison per head of population than any country in Europe.

So what do we do, build more prisons and put more people in prison.

Or do we accept that JUST putting people in prison is not the best answer.

[mike11111]

"...Or do we accept that JUST putting people in prison is not the best answer"

Agreed. The gallows, as well as being more effective, is also a much cheaper option.

[factor-fiction]

I think Ken Clarke is a realist. I think he could be a great asset to the government if they used him properly

[mike11111]

Ken Clarke is the last remnant of the dreadful Edward Heath, the biggest blot on the escutcheon of Toryism.

[PipinDorset]

Have to agree with Factor - he is much more approachable than many from the "Nasty Party".

[Khandro]

//The gallows, as well as being more effective, is also a much cheaper option// Do you have any evidence to substantiate your assertion that it is more effective?

[mike11111]

"//The gallows, as well as being more effective, is also a much cheaper option// Do you have any evidence to substantiate your assertion that it is more effective?"

I have yet to see any evidence of a hanged man reoffending, though I am willing to be corrected.

[Brenden]

It costs approx £50,000 a year to keep a prisoner in jail -

[modeller]

I wasn't just thinking of crime but also of the application of human rights acts and the deportation of illegal immigrants .
I agree with Mike #Ken Clarke is the last remnant of the dreadful Edward Heath # Unfortunately we have a PM who talks tough on Crime , Immigration and the EU but then appoints KC who is soft on all these things.

[anotheoldgit]

/// Or do we accept that JUST putting people in prison is not the best answer. ///

It perhaps would be if our prisons were not just 5 star accommodation for the dregs of our society.

[PipinDorset]

Derek Bentley and Timothy Evans, Stefan Kiszko and many, many others were wrongly punished, with irreversible consequences in the first two cases. I'm not a bleeding heart liberal but I'm damned glad we have no plans to put capital punishment into the hands of an establishment too arrogant to acknowledge its errors. Why not starting off by hanging the Police Constable who killed the most unfortunate newspaper seller following the G20 disorder? I am not comfortable with the balance of a man's (or woman's) life being placed in the hands of the so called ruling classes who have long had their own agendas. There are many who believe that man made laws are created solely to keep the rich rich and the poor poor. Sometimes, it's not easy to disagree. Regards to all.

[Gromit]

Mike11111etc

The US has Capital Punishment. Last time I looked it had a high crime rate. If Capital Punishment was as effective as you claim, it should have a very low crime rate. How do you explain that?

[mike11111]

"Derek Bentley and Timothy Evans, Stefan Kiszko and many, many others were wrongly punished"

Evans, perhaps yes. Bentley, definitely not. As the law stood at the time he was guilty of murder. There are powerful arguments to the effect that he should have been reprieved from the gallows, but this was not a miscarriage of justice as the term is popularly understood today.

[mike11111]

"The US has Capital Punishment. Last time I looked it had a high crime rate. If Capital Punishment was as effective as you claim, it should have a very low crime rate. How do you explain that?"

Simple, they just ain't executin' em fast enough.

[DTCwordfan]

Indeed it does gromit, the Uk 75k incarcerated 71k men and 4k women
Texas on a population of 23 mln, 145k men and 12k women

Execution does not deter offenders.

[emmie]

he isn't dead yet.

[DTCwordfan]

and yes we are the highest in Europe.

One of the quicker ways to get numbers down, get proper exiting programmes into the Forces (esp the Army) - over 15% of the population is ex Military and I believe the number is nearer 20%

[DTCwordfan]

I agree, em - I found modeller's title to this thread somewhat offensive.

[mike11111]

"Execution does not deter offenders."

Err?