Crosswords1 min ago
OK let's prosecute the police then...
39 Answers
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19922092
Why do so many refuse to see that the primary cause of this tragedy was thousands of ticketless fans forcing there way in. Ok Plod made errors but if the afore mentioned ticketless fans had not been trying to trespass they would not have had the problem. They just keep on trying to find some poor sod of a retired copper to nail to the wall so they can absolve the real causers of this of blame.
Why do so many refuse to see that the primary cause of this tragedy was thousands of ticketless fans forcing there way in. Ok Plod made errors but if the afore mentioned ticketless fans had not been trying to trespass they would not have had the problem. They just keep on trying to find some poor sod of a retired copper to nail to the wall so they can absolve the real causers of this of blame.
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In a democracy governed by the rule of law, misconduct, lies and blaming the victims needs to be addressed.Without that transparency, the whole system is called into question.
It is not, as your OP suggests, a witchunt for "some poor sod of a retired copper". It is allegations of systematic cover up, altering police statements and more.
I personally will believe the conclusions about the cause of the disaster arrived at by the IPCC over your opinion which you state as fact.
Based upon the information now emerging, there was a systematic cover-up to remove any hint of blame from the police, and shovel it all onto the very fans who died, including the spinning of some allegations of disgusting behaviour by the fans, later shown to be lies and propaganda.
It is not, as your OP suggests, a witchunt for "some poor sod of a retired copper". It is allegations of systematic cover up, altering police statements and more.
I personally will believe the conclusions about the cause of the disaster arrived at by the IPCC over your opinion which you state as fact.
Based upon the information now emerging, there was a systematic cover-up to remove any hint of blame from the police, and shovel it all onto the very fans who died, including the spinning of some allegations of disgusting behaviour by the fans, later shown to be lies and propaganda.
Do you think perjury is an offence? How about perverting the course of justice by submitting statements which you have had deliberately altered in material particulars, to give a false impression of events? If you agree that they are, do you think police officers should be exempt from being charged for committing them?
And please explain how 'ticketless fans', if there were any, or any significant number, caused deaths? The Report, which had all available evidence in its preparation, does not appear to support that contention.
And please explain how 'ticketless fans', if there were any, or any significant number, caused deaths? The Report, which had all available evidence in its preparation, does not appear to support that contention.
I did not really follow all the enquiries that followed the tragedy. And did not see the point of all the investigations until the truth came out. I was stunned and completely shocked.
If it was my brother, sister, father etc I would want the truth to come out and any slur on their character be removed!!
I personally totally understand why the continue to pursue this.
If it was my brother, sister, father etc I would want the truth to come out and any slur on their character be removed!!
I personally totally understand why the continue to pursue this.
Broadly I agree with Thatcherite, but if it is true that "164 police statements were altered - 116 of them to remove or change negative comments about the policing of the FA Cup semi-final" then there is need for clarification. Are we to believe that police altered their own statements? Before I believe it, I'd like to know who supposedly discovered the alterations and how.
It was the efforts of the Hillsborough Independent Panel that uncovered most of these latest revelations.
http://
They had unrestricted access to over 450,000 documents. David Cameron, the PM, would be unlikely to offer a public apology unless the government were convinced of the truth of the allegations contained with this latest report. The South Yorkshire police have not denied the conclusions arrived at in this latest report.
This latest report materially substantiated the findings of Lord Justice Taylor investigation, back in 1989,stated that the main reason for the disaster was the lack of police control.
Sir Norman Bettison, now the chief constable of West Yorkshire, but then an Inspector in South Yorkshire police, said this about this latest report -
"He went on: "Fans' behaviour, to the extent that it was relevant at all, made the job of the police, in the crush outside Leppings Lane turnstiles, harder than it needed to be. But it didn't cause the disaster any more than the sunny day that encouraged people to linger outside the stadium as kick-off approached.
"I held those views then, I hold them now. I have never, since hearing the Taylor evidence unfold, offered any other interpretation in public or private"
This from the man now thought to be largely responsible for the spin and propaganda issued by South Yorkshire police to the media, and now blamed by the then editor of The Sun, Kelvin Mackenzie, for the deeply offensive front page that the Sun published back then.Note again what he says - a man responsible for the policing of that match - Fans behaviour and the crush outside the turnstiles did not cause the disaster.
http://
They had unrestricted access to over 450,000 documents. David Cameron, the PM, would be unlikely to offer a public apology unless the government were convinced of the truth of the allegations contained with this latest report. The South Yorkshire police have not denied the conclusions arrived at in this latest report.
This latest report materially substantiated the findings of Lord Justice Taylor investigation, back in 1989,stated that the main reason for the disaster was the lack of police control.
Sir Norman Bettison, now the chief constable of West Yorkshire, but then an Inspector in South Yorkshire police, said this about this latest report -
"He went on: "Fans' behaviour, to the extent that it was relevant at all, made the job of the police, in the crush outside Leppings Lane turnstiles, harder than it needed to be. But it didn't cause the disaster any more than the sunny day that encouraged people to linger outside the stadium as kick-off approached.
"I held those views then, I hold them now. I have never, since hearing the Taylor evidence unfold, offered any other interpretation in public or private"
This from the man now thought to be largely responsible for the spin and propaganda issued by South Yorkshire police to the media, and now blamed by the then editor of The Sun, Kelvin Mackenzie, for the deeply offensive front page that the Sun published back then.Note again what he says - a man responsible for the policing of that match - Fans behaviour and the crush outside the turnstiles did not cause the disaster.
-- answer removed --
i agree, but those gates the police opened shouldn't have been opened regardless of what was to happen.
some of them did have tickets but 2 sides of the stand were empty as there were filter lanes inside the turnstiles.
fans shouldn't travel to the ground and expect to get in without tickets and if they did have tickets get in nice and early.
i'm always at the ground at least a hour before kick off, just like to get my spot get to read the programme and look forward to the match.
some of them did have tickets but 2 sides of the stand were empty as there were filter lanes inside the turnstiles.
fans shouldn't travel to the ground and expect to get in without tickets and if they did have tickets get in nice and early.
i'm always at the ground at least a hour before kick off, just like to get my spot get to read the programme and look forward to the match.
but the police are being done also now for the lies, cover ups.
please remember west mids police also allowed the cover up and i hope they get bought to the book aswell as honesty will always prevail. may have took a long time to get to this but the truth came out.
few factors i see relating to this--
1- gates should have never been opened
2- ticketless fans were part to blame and anyone who didn't have a ticket that can be tracked down should be bought forward for their part in the incident.
3- fans should have been in ground when gates were opened
4- any info/statements shouldn't be doctored as its a legal document.
5- if documents weren't doctored this would have been buried many many years ago
please remember west mids police also allowed the cover up and i hope they get bought to the book aswell as honesty will always prevail. may have took a long time to get to this but the truth came out.
few factors i see relating to this--
1- gates should have never been opened
2- ticketless fans were part to blame and anyone who didn't have a ticket that can be tracked down should be bought forward for their part in the incident.
3- fans should have been in ground when gates were opened
4- any info/statements shouldn't be doctored as its a legal document.
5- if documents weren't doctored this would have been buried many many years ago
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