Benefit applicants to face lie detector tests.

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9711368/Benefit-cheats-to-face-lie-detector-tests.html

Are Southwark Council citizens known for their lies, or is this just another frightening Labour initiative?

[pdq1]

I'd be a bit concerned for immigrants who must daily stress from trying to understand English. As that part of London has many immigrants I can see the officials having a hard time.

[cazzz1975]

how accurate are lie detectors? are they used currently in the police force?

[rojash]

There is no scientific evidence that lie detectors actually work.
They might just as well test them by reading tea leaves or goats entrails.
But anyone who has to face this kind of test can get help from the Daily Mail of all places.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2239554/Practice-makes-perfect-Just-20-minutes-rehearsing-make-infallible-liar-new-study-finds.html

[ZedBloke]

Polygraph tests are inadmissible generally so any decision will be unlawful, sounds like this is another bonanza for the compo lawyers. At best this is well intentioned but ill informed, at worst, complicent.

[Baldric]

According to the headline in the link;
///Benefit cheats to face lie detector tests///
They must already be proven to be cheats or they wouldn't be calling them that, so why waste further resources on even more tests?

[rojash]

Interesting Telegraph article "The awkward truth about lie detectors"

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tomchiversscience/100173508/the-awkward-truth-about-lie-detectors/

[jake-the-peg]

I think the key part of that article is:

Horder agrees, pointing to research which found that polygraphs were “70-97 per cent accurate for people who turned out to be guilty, but between 12-94 per cent accurate for people who turned out to be innocent.”


That's the thing about them - potentially useful to get further information that proves guilt beyond reasonable doubt but not good enough on their own in a law case

[pdq1]

I wish they'd give Jeremy Bamber a lie detector test. He is always pleading his innocence and prison without parole is rather harsh if he turns out to be innocent. At least according to Jake figures it may prove his guilt at between 70-97%.

[jno]

perhaps they could use it on MPs claiming expenses.

[EDDIE51]

pdq1, read the artical
''people who do not have English as a first language will be exempt from the tests'' as will people who do not have a phone.

[pdq1]

Thanks for pointing that out Eddie. I didn't realise there will be some discrimination.

[EDDIE51]

Baldric, read the article
The tests will be used for people who claim the 25% council tax discount for living alone. In other words not for people who are already suspected of fraud , it will apply to all those who claim to be living alone.

[plowter]

Another piece of PR nonsense from the Ministry of Tosh.

The results of telephone 'lie detector tests' will only be used to identify applicants who may merit further investigation. It'll be the same credit checks and national insurance checks that'll identify possible fraud.

If lie detecors really worked they would have used them in the Select Committee inquiries into banking, tax avoidance and newspapers.

[emmie]

this is wholly wrong, for a start the exemption of people who's first language isn't English, seeing Southwark has a high proportion of immigrants some who may speak some English and some who speak none.
If the benefits people phone you how can any tell that the person at the other end isn't suffering from an illness, physical or mental, so could sound stressed, is that an indication of benefit fraud. Surely if the people are claiming council tax exemption the best thing would be as happened to me was a visit from a council officer.

[Baldric]

Eddie, many thanks for your somewhat arrogant assumption that I had not read the article, which states that the test is going to be used on 53000 people claiming for single occupancy, I referred to the headline calling them "benefit cheats" before they've been tested, whatever happened to 'innocent until proven guilty?'

[Gromit]

Lie detector test evidence is not permitted in Courts because they are unreliable, so how can they be used for this.

Sounds like some idiot has watched to many Jeremy Kyle Shows.

[youngmafbog]

Would depend how it is used Gromit. If it is used to highlight the ones to investigate first then it could be a useful tool.

I suspect the problem is that there is so much fraud and too many to investigate so some method of whittling it down is required.

either way, as pointed out earlier is a charter for the bottom dwelling pond life lawyers.

[whiskeryron]

Could I just point out that instead of investigating people who actually pay council tax ( whether enough or not) how about trying to trace ALL of the illegal immigrants now on these isles who pay nothing,nil,zilch,not a sausage.

WR.