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Nra: Rubbing The Anti-Gun Lobby's Nose In It..
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..or just displaying the usual lack of tact and diplomacy they're infamous for?
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Crazy isn't it? There are far worse games than that very tame looking thing out.
"It is ridiculous to claim that video games influence children. If Pac-Man affected kids born in the eighties, we should now have a bunch of teenagers who run around in darkened rooms and eat pills while listening to monotonous electronic music." - Kristian Wilson, Nintendo Inc., 1989
"It is ridiculous to claim that video games influence children. If Pac-Man affected kids born in the eighties, we should now have a bunch of teenagers who run around in darkened rooms and eat pills while listening to monotonous electronic music." - Kristian Wilson, Nintendo Inc., 1989
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Nothing wrong with it, usual overreaction by an 'anti' lobby.
300m weapons does not equate to 'one each' as was shown in this latest case the mother had a cabinet full.
Whilst I agree it is hard to understand why 'homes' can have such powerful automatic rifles people in this country need to understand how remote some parts of the USA are. Its no use dialling 911 in many parts of the country as no one is likely to come in time, if at all. In addition remember we dont have things like Bears popping in for tea!
So I dont think the answer is that simple.
300m weapons does not equate to 'one each' as was shown in this latest case the mother had a cabinet full.
Whilst I agree it is hard to understand why 'homes' can have such powerful automatic rifles people in this country need to understand how remote some parts of the USA are. Its no use dialling 911 in many parts of the country as no one is likely to come in time, if at all. In addition remember we dont have things like Bears popping in for tea!
So I dont think the answer is that simple.
I'll rise to that WWII bait LOL
but only to point out the key distinction in the US
At the end of WWII most servicemen in the UK gave up their firearms at demob never to touch one again.
In the US, most servicemen are demobilised into a society where firearms are a normal part of many households' contents, firearms are carried by people on a regular basis and going out and shooting animals is a popular hobby.
On the basis we can never eradicate people with mental issues 'going off on one' it would be much better if the worst weapon they have access to is a knife from the kitchen or a car off the drive - not one or two of mom's semi-automatic assault rifles that she keeps in her bedroom closet.
but only to point out the key distinction in the US
At the end of WWII most servicemen in the UK gave up their firearms at demob never to touch one again.
In the US, most servicemen are demobilised into a society where firearms are a normal part of many households' contents, firearms are carried by people on a regular basis and going out and shooting animals is a popular hobby.
On the basis we can never eradicate people with mental issues 'going off on one' it would be much better if the worst weapon they have access to is a knife from the kitchen or a car off the drive - not one or two of mom's semi-automatic assault rifles that she keeps in her bedroom closet.
/no use dialling 911 in many parts of the country/
Most americans live in towns or suburbs.
The statistics show that the instances of householders defending themselves against armed atackers are few and far between; outweighed by the number killed with their own weapons and far outweighed by the number of innocents killed in accidents involving those weapons.
In short, the self defense notion is a delusion
Most americans live in towns or suburbs.
The statistics show that the instances of householders defending themselves against armed atackers are few and far between; outweighed by the number killed with their own weapons and far outweighed by the number of innocents killed in accidents involving those weapons.
In short, the self defense notion is a delusion
Agree ymb
but gun crime by criminals might be expected - and most of the increase is criminal on criminal
we are in a whole new dimension (USA thousands of deaths vs UK 30 or so) when non criminals are at it too.
when they can easily turn a domestic dispute, nervous breakdown or acrimonious divorce into a blood bath.
but gun crime by criminals might be expected - and most of the increase is criminal on criminal
we are in a whole new dimension (USA thousands of deaths vs UK 30 or so) when non criminals are at it too.
when they can easily turn a domestic dispute, nervous breakdown or acrimonious divorce into a blood bath.
Being a citizen, as I am, of the U.S., my view is that there's no singular, let alone simple, answer to the question of why certain people "go off the deep end"...
Look, the last 3 mass shootings that occurred in schools, (Columbine, Colorado, Red Lake Minnesota and now Newtown, Connecticut) were perpetrated by young, white males. In fact the history of the last 30 years or so only includes one such shooting that involved a female. Surely testosterone has some affect on the incidents.
AB Editors question asked if video games had/have an affect. After watching some of the games in progress at a game store recently(my first exposure) I can't help but believe the detailed blood, guts and gore that are displayed when the game's operator pulls the trigger have a numbing effect on that kid. It's unreal, in his mind, in my opinion. He's able to kill (and be killed) and yet his victims and himself are 'resurrected'. For the person who has other personality problems, this must divorce his reality from actual life and perhaps he doesn't really expect those he has murdered to 'stay' dead.
It's significant, that most of those who do the killing usually kill themselves, leaving us to try and determine, post-mortem, the reasons.
Some have commented on the numbers of guns in the U.S. I own 14 long guns, shotguns and pistols my self. But most of those, like friends I know, collect them for the value or uniqueness (2 are black powder muzzle loaders). I've hunted (living as I do in the western U.S.) all of my life and was taught early (age 6) by my father and grandfather how to handle and respect the firearm safely. That's not a singular experience among those I know who own guns.
Some collectors have guns running into the hundreds. But, in fact, of all the people I can think of, probably less that 30% own a firearm.
I also have (as do most of my friends) a permit called a Conceal-Carry License. It allows, as the name suggests, the carrying of a weapon in a concealed fashion... and I do. Never had to use it and don't expect to, but I'd rather have it and not need it than not have it and watch my family (or others) be harmed. But I recognize that attitude is part of my upbringing as well as self-reliance imposed by living in the unpopulated western U.S.
At any rate, the statistics (what's the old saying about statistics being manipulated by those who have an agenda) seem to indicate little, if any correlation to owning guns and murders committed by them as tools. The last horrific murders at Newtown were done by a young man who was deeply troubled, spent long hours in a darkened basement of his mother's house playing combat video games and used his mother's legally obtained guns to murder her first and then the children at a school.
A prohibition was imposed in about 1992 by the Clinton Administration on owning the so-called 'assault weapons'. The murder rate by using such weapons actually increased... significantly increased. The law was repealed in 2002 and the murder rate using them went down 52%!
Keep in mind, the ownership of true automatic weapons (pull the trigger and hold it and it keeps firing) has been illegal for 50 years. A semi-automatic type is one that fires with each seperate pull of the trigger, which are legal.
I don't have an answer for how to prohibit this in the future... I just know that confiscation of all the guns the police force can find will only leave illegally obtained guns in the hands of such individuals as the school murderer.
By the way, being armed to the teeth preparing for Armageddon is a position only held by a very small group of folks whom we even deride, since they haven't clue as to what life would be like in a full blown social system collapse.
Many of us were fortunate enough to have parents or grandparents who lived through the Great Depression and truly knew what near collapse was and taught their descendants thier own hard earned self-reliance...
Look, the last 3 mass shootings that occurred in schools, (Columbine, Colorado, Red Lake Minnesota and now Newtown, Connecticut) were perpetrated by young, white males. In fact the history of the last 30 years or so only includes one such shooting that involved a female. Surely testosterone has some affect on the incidents.
AB Editors question asked if video games had/have an affect. After watching some of the games in progress at a game store recently(my first exposure) I can't help but believe the detailed blood, guts and gore that are displayed when the game's operator pulls the trigger have a numbing effect on that kid. It's unreal, in his mind, in my opinion. He's able to kill (and be killed) and yet his victims and himself are 'resurrected'. For the person who has other personality problems, this must divorce his reality from actual life and perhaps he doesn't really expect those he has murdered to 'stay' dead.
It's significant, that most of those who do the killing usually kill themselves, leaving us to try and determine, post-mortem, the reasons.
Some have commented on the numbers of guns in the U.S. I own 14 long guns, shotguns and pistols my self. But most of those, like friends I know, collect them for the value or uniqueness (2 are black powder muzzle loaders). I've hunted (living as I do in the western U.S.) all of my life and was taught early (age 6) by my father and grandfather how to handle and respect the firearm safely. That's not a singular experience among those I know who own guns.
Some collectors have guns running into the hundreds. But, in fact, of all the people I can think of, probably less that 30% own a firearm.
I also have (as do most of my friends) a permit called a Conceal-Carry License. It allows, as the name suggests, the carrying of a weapon in a concealed fashion... and I do. Never had to use it and don't expect to, but I'd rather have it and not need it than not have it and watch my family (or others) be harmed. But I recognize that attitude is part of my upbringing as well as self-reliance imposed by living in the unpopulated western U.S.
At any rate, the statistics (what's the old saying about statistics being manipulated by those who have an agenda) seem to indicate little, if any correlation to owning guns and murders committed by them as tools. The last horrific murders at Newtown were done by a young man who was deeply troubled, spent long hours in a darkened basement of his mother's house playing combat video games and used his mother's legally obtained guns to murder her first and then the children at a school.
A prohibition was imposed in about 1992 by the Clinton Administration on owning the so-called 'assault weapons'. The murder rate by using such weapons actually increased... significantly increased. The law was repealed in 2002 and the murder rate using them went down 52%!
Keep in mind, the ownership of true automatic weapons (pull the trigger and hold it and it keeps firing) has been illegal for 50 years. A semi-automatic type is one that fires with each seperate pull of the trigger, which are legal.
I don't have an answer for how to prohibit this in the future... I just know that confiscation of all the guns the police force can find will only leave illegally obtained guns in the hands of such individuals as the school murderer.
By the way, being armed to the teeth preparing for Armageddon is a position only held by a very small group of folks whom we even deride, since they haven't clue as to what life would be like in a full blown social system collapse.
Many of us were fortunate enough to have parents or grandparents who lived through the Great Depression and truly knew what near collapse was and taught their descendants thier own hard earned self-reliance...
clannad
Very interesting commentary from personal experience - excellent
I'm sure you represent the majority of responsible gun owners
but I'm sure you appreciate that for most people in the 'civilised world' it is somewhat disturbing that you admit to habitually carrying a lethal weapon when out and about in public, even though you admit that you have
/Never had to use it and don't expect to/
Seems rather a waste of time and an unnecessary risk of theft, loss or accident.
/I'd rather have it and not need it than not have it and watch my family (or others) be harmed./
rather presupposes you would be given an opportunity to draw and safely use it. I believe the woman politician famously shot a few years ago was an advocate and was surrounded by friends and colleagues who were carrying - didn't do her much good in the surprise attack.
Also, I would suggest that while confiscation would leave guns in the hands only of criminals, i think it is incorrect to say:
/confiscation of all the guns the police force can find will only leave illegally obtained guns in the hands of such individuals as the school murderer. /
My understanding is that all the 'murder spree' killings in recent years have been carried out with legally held weapons.
But, as you say, i'm not sure where usa goes with this - gun ownership is so entrenched. However, so is car ownership, and even the usa has restrictions on the power, speed and designs that are allowed.
Very interesting commentary from personal experience - excellent
I'm sure you represent the majority of responsible gun owners
but I'm sure you appreciate that for most people in the 'civilised world' it is somewhat disturbing that you admit to habitually carrying a lethal weapon when out and about in public, even though you admit that you have
/Never had to use it and don't expect to/
Seems rather a waste of time and an unnecessary risk of theft, loss or accident.
/I'd rather have it and not need it than not have it and watch my family (or others) be harmed./
rather presupposes you would be given an opportunity to draw and safely use it. I believe the woman politician famously shot a few years ago was an advocate and was surrounded by friends and colleagues who were carrying - didn't do her much good in the surprise attack.
Also, I would suggest that while confiscation would leave guns in the hands only of criminals, i think it is incorrect to say:
/confiscation of all the guns the police force can find will only leave illegally obtained guns in the hands of such individuals as the school murderer. /
My understanding is that all the 'murder spree' killings in recent years have been carried out with legally held weapons.
But, as you say, i'm not sure where usa goes with this - gun ownership is so entrenched. However, so is car ownership, and even the usa has restrictions on the power, speed and designs that are allowed.
Zeuhl ... your reference to the lady politician is the "Gabby" Gifford shooting in Arizona. Again, the perpetrator, Jared Loughner, had a long and well known history of mental problems. He was recently sentenced to a non-revocable life term in prison.
There was one conceal-carry holder that arrived within seconds of the shooting. He had intended to use is weapon, but upon moving around a corner he realized that he could be mistaken for a second gunman and he couldn't see Loughner at any rate. He, wisely decided to wait for the police... that took nearly 15 minutes though...
To obtain the conceal-carry permit requires an intensive background check and schooling as well as demonstrating competency with several different handguns.
Notably, there are numerous links one can easily find that indicate in both Australia and the U.K., hand gun violence initially increased... significantly, in the years immediately following their respective governments actions to severely restrict, if not prohibit gun ownership by the citizenry. I don't have the latest stats... however, the most current ones indicate in both countries, over-all violent crime has increased tremendously... so much so that Britain's violent crime exceeds the U.S.'s!
The other disturbing stat from the U.K. is the numbers of citizens prosecuted for "over" defending themselves when attacked or burgeled. That's a total mystery to me.
One quote from one of your newpapers stated that police had warned residents not put chickenwire over their windows since that had the potential of injuring burglars!
Different strokes... as they say...
There was one conceal-carry holder that arrived within seconds of the shooting. He had intended to use is weapon, but upon moving around a corner he realized that he could be mistaken for a second gunman and he couldn't see Loughner at any rate. He, wisely decided to wait for the police... that took nearly 15 minutes though...
To obtain the conceal-carry permit requires an intensive background check and schooling as well as demonstrating competency with several different handguns.
Notably, there are numerous links one can easily find that indicate in both Australia and the U.K., hand gun violence initially increased... significantly, in the years immediately following their respective governments actions to severely restrict, if not prohibit gun ownership by the citizenry. I don't have the latest stats... however, the most current ones indicate in both countries, over-all violent crime has increased tremendously... so much so that Britain's violent crime exceeds the U.S.'s!
The other disturbing stat from the U.K. is the numbers of citizens prosecuted for "over" defending themselves when attacked or burgeled. That's a total mystery to me.
One quote from one of your newpapers stated that police had warned residents not put chickenwire over their windows since that had the potential of injuring burglars!
Different strokes... as they say...
/so much so that Britain's violent crime exceeds the U.S.'s!/
but is much, much less likely to be lethal
/Australia and the U.K., hand gun violence initially increased.../
but includes use of replica guns in robberies
Even if use of guns by criminals is increasing - that is not the issue relevant to the most recent school shooting. That is the huge number of killings in the USA (deliberate and accidental) involving Non Criminals with legally owned weapons.
/the numbers of citizens prosecuted for "over" defending themselves when attacked or burgeled/
Hardly ever happens - a few cases a year that reach court and make the papers.
Householders are allowed to protect themselves and property to a 'reasonable' degree. The authorities are pretty good at sorting them from cases like the most recent (several months ago) where a burglary victim rounded up a friend and some cricket bats and scoured the streets until they found the perp and beat him half to death - that's not defending oneself, it's vigilantism.
but is much, much less likely to be lethal
/Australia and the U.K., hand gun violence initially increased.../
but includes use of replica guns in robberies
Even if use of guns by criminals is increasing - that is not the issue relevant to the most recent school shooting. That is the huge number of killings in the USA (deliberate and accidental) involving Non Criminals with legally owned weapons.
/the numbers of citizens prosecuted for "over" defending themselves when attacked or burgeled/
Hardly ever happens - a few cases a year that reach court and make the papers.
Householders are allowed to protect themselves and property to a 'reasonable' degree. The authorities are pretty good at sorting them from cases like the most recent (several months ago) where a burglary victim rounded up a friend and some cricket bats and scoured the streets until they found the perp and beat him half to death - that's not defending oneself, it's vigilantism.
YMB, i didn't say every US citizen had a gun, i said it could equate to every citizen, seeing their are over 300million guns, as well as people in the US.
I am aware that the shooters mother had a small arsenal of guns, and that it was one of hers that he used to kill her and then go on the rampage.
I also think it's the mindset of the ordinary folk, it's our right to carry a weapon, you hear it repeated over and over, these same folk who had it been their child may well think a curb on some on these powerful weapons necessary.
The poor parents i was watching on the news last night were absolutely devastated. President Obama will have his work cut out to change people's minds and hearts over gun ownership.
I am aware that the shooters mother had a small arsenal of guns, and that it was one of hers that he used to kill her and then go on the rampage.
I also think it's the mindset of the ordinary folk, it's our right to carry a weapon, you hear it repeated over and over, these same folk who had it been their child may well think a curb on some on these powerful weapons necessary.
The poor parents i was watching on the news last night were absolutely devastated. President Obama will have his work cut out to change people's minds and hearts over gun ownership.
In the uk we have banned the ownership of hand guns and automatic shotguns and rifles. It has worked here, if people in the usa are so concerned about protecting their home they can still have a shotgun or a rifle but it will need to be kept in a steel cabinet and chained to the wall.
The American dream eh!! I would live there for all the money in the world!!!
The American dream eh!! I would live there for all the money in the world!!!
@Clanad - Thanks for the info from your perspective, Clanad - very interesting.
I would be in broad agreement with the points Zeuhl is making however. I really really cannot see any justification for wanting an assault rifle. Apparently, demand for them is so high, and the fear that they will be banned so great, that the model of assault rifle used in the most recent spree killing is now selling at twice the price.
I would be in broad agreement with the points Zeuhl is making however. I really really cannot see any justification for wanting an assault rifle. Apparently, demand for them is so high, and the fear that they will be banned so great, that the model of assault rifle used in the most recent spree killing is now selling at twice the price.
More like thrice the price, Lazy Gun... I saw one about 6 monthsago in a gun store that was selling for $800 (US) and the last one I saw was near $3,000 and it was the only one left in the store.
Problem is, an AR-15 with a military hand grip (rather like a pistol grip) is considered an "assault weapon", while the exact sme model in the exact same caliber but with a molded wooden handle that's part of the rear stock isn't[i and assault weapon... go figure!
Fact is [i]Ratter[i], my guns are always kept in a safe... locked... and, of course as already explained, it's not [i]just] about protecting ones family and home (although I really can't think of anything more important, can you?). It's about the value and pride in ownership of something extremelyunique... such as a Winchester Model 1894 with a 7 digit serial number... priceless and it's in my safe...
Problem is, an AR-15 with a military hand grip (rather like a pistol grip) is considered an "assault weapon", while the exact sme model in the exact same caliber but with a molded wooden handle that's part of the rear stock isn't[i and assault weapon... go figure!
Fact is [i]Ratter[i], my guns are always kept in a safe... locked... and, of course as already explained, it's not [i]just] about protecting ones family and home (although I really can't think of anything more important, can you?). It's about the value and pride in ownership of something extremelyunique... such as a Winchester Model 1894 with a 7 digit serial number... priceless and it's in my safe...
Clanad
"It's about the value and pride in ownership of something extremelyunique... such as a Winchester Model 1894 with a 7 digit serial number... priceless and it's in my safe... " Im sorry its a gun!!
Every American has a reason for owning a gun, sorry it doesn't wash. Ban all handguns held by the general public and see the gun related crime plummet.
Im no foreigner to guns, ive had them most of my life but for sport and vermin control only and never had any need for a hand gun or an assault rifle of any description. USA needs to lose the gung'ho attitude to guns, they are not toys and if you have the desire to collect rare guns, have them deactivated!
"It's about the value and pride in ownership of something extremelyunique... such as a Winchester Model 1894 with a 7 digit serial number... priceless and it's in my safe... " Im sorry its a gun!!
Every American has a reason for owning a gun, sorry it doesn't wash. Ban all handguns held by the general public and see the gun related crime plummet.
Im no foreigner to guns, ive had them most of my life but for sport and vermin control only and never had any need for a hand gun or an assault rifle of any description. USA needs to lose the gung'ho attitude to guns, they are not toys and if you have the desire to collect rare guns, have them deactivated!
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