Should Women Fight In The Infantry?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/9823312/Army-has-dropped-fitness-standards-to-allow-more-women-to-join.html

In the continuing quest for sex equality, why should it be only men who have to put their lives at risk?

/// Major Judith Webb said "women should not be given roles in infantry units where they would be expected to “close with and kill the enemy at close quarters”. ///

/// I don’t think we should have women in infantry roles. By opening it up to women, are women shooting themselves in the foot? Because they are not going to be able to have those standards,” she said. ///

/// She argued that it still shocked people when a woman soldier died in war zone. ///

/// “The British public still do not accept women should be in such roles. ///

[DangerUXD]

I reckon they'd do great, well, once a month anyway! The military tacticians could schedule battles accordingly.

[emmie]

i believe they should, but confess it's unlikely to happen. Some of the bigwigs in the army won't allow it, they think that it's likely, whether true or not, that the men soldiers will be more worried over their female colleagues than the men. however that shouldn't stand in the way, if the women wanted to fight, are fit, well trained, then don't see why not.

[moonraker558]

The enemy wouldn't stand a chance against a fully kitted out female soldier with PMT. lol

[NOX]

I am a man and I think the following- notwithstanding the obvious physical discrepencies ( strength, reach, height etc).
Women generally fall into three main personality types, those nice girly pink ' can't top up the water in my car' types who really enjoy everything about being helpless and girlish, the middle of the road ladies who I think most women fall into this category- every bit as efficient and sensible as men, complete equals, and the final category of women who are as physically strong as men, unusually tall and athletic and with a very driven, aggressive personality. Having seen women fight hand to hand I have absolutely no concerns that they lack the killer instinct required and I can't imagine the candyfloss type ladies putting themselves forward as soldiers- so I essentially think that only women who are up to the job will submit themselves for it, and as such I have no problem at all because I can't see why they shouldn't be able to do it every bit as effectively as a man.

[DangerUXD]

just tell them the enemy has curtains that don't match the furniture and that they leave the bog seat up! No contest!

[joko]

thats it nox -only the ones who CAN do it should be allowed.
it should be by choice and by ability assessment.
i have no doubt that some women would kick the crap out of many blokes - but in general thats not the case.
it shouldnt be just an open thing or that they are forced.

i daresay there a good many male soldiers who would not be all that good in a hand to hand combat - not all soldiers are strapping 6 footers, with a machine like demeanor, lol

as ummm said - true equality is about attitude - and respect, and playing to our strengths rather than viewing them as weaknesses.

i any other circumstance i would be fighting the female corner, as women are as good as men, if not better sometimes, in every other field - except for one and that is brute strength - and thats just nature... nothing to do with equality

[Mick-Talbot]

as women are as good as men, if not better sometimes, in every other field -


lol lol

[Mick-Talbot]

Actually...................even scarecrows are men

[McMouse]

If men and women both complete the same infantry training then why not fight side by side. We live in a world where equal opportunity is held to be a persons right, so women should not be denied the right to be combat soldiers.

[jd_1984]

Personally, I feel it should be the choice of the individual regardless of sex whether to join the infantry. Providing that their senior training officers certify them physically and mentally able to perform the duties alongside the men, it is fair for them to be given the choice to fight.
However, I still think that Government has read the potential mood of the country well, if females were coming home in body bags it would carry a much larger shock value....... Is this right, matter of opinion..

[andy-hughes]

I don't think that women should fight in the infantry.

But then again - I don't think that men should fight in the infantry either - i think the notion of training and equiping people to kill other people is barbaric, and options for doing so should be limited, not expanded.

Reponses starting with "So you think ..." and then ignoring my point, or making a separate point will not be entertained by me as a debate.

[Mick-Talbot]

I don't even get your point , andy. It would be nice to live in a world of universal peace and harmony but that will never happen.

[andy-hughes]

Mick - My point is that training equipping and paying people to kill other people is fundamentally wrong, and the notion of doing so should be decreasing in a civilised society - not increasing as we make such activity the basis of some sort of sexual equality.

[Mick-Talbot]

Surely you must concede that it is a necessity, andy?

[andy-hughes]

That's a separate issue Mick. i am not arguring about the necessity of an infantry - only that the concept is wrong and has no place in a civilised society, and that we should be doing everything we can to reduce the use of military force in the world, not increase it by bringing in an entire gender on the basis of some sort of twisted logic based on imagined discrimination.

[LoftyLottie]

I agree Andy, but unfortunately as Mick says it is never going to happen and we are never going to learn by past history. And what nation will ever take the first move knowing that others will not follow.

[andy-hughes]

I take your point Lottie - but we could show willing by at least avoiding the notion of expanding our armed forces because someone somewhere has decided that it would be a good idea to give the ladies a go - this is not about letting ladies tee of first on a Saturday morning, it's about giving them guns to shoot people with, and be shot at doing it. It has to be wrong, and definitely discouraged.

The argument is simple - we need less people willing to kill people, not more, so let's look at reduction rather than increase.

Any argument from a military person must be taken with the proviso that they have a personal standpoint to argue from - their career - which they are unlikely to relinquish easily, having already demonstrated that they think military action is good thing by joining the forces in the first place.

[ChillDoubt]

All joking aside, considering the British Army's current deployments and possible/probable future deployments, consider the other side of being an infantry soldier.
As boots-on-the-ground teeth arms at the FEBA(look it up), infantry soldier's will invariably be the first to be captured and become POW's.
Look at the possible/probable scenario's:
A female infantry soldier is captured by the Taliban/other radical Muslim fundamental insurgents. Given the treatment of other soldiers/prisoners in recent/current theatre's of operations, how well do you think a female combatant would be treated by such? How much of a propaganda coup would it be for her to become the subject of a video message?

Should one be captured and treated in a depraved manner and possibly beheaded by opposing forces, how would the general public of the UK react?
The extremes of circumstance, location, requirements and possible repercussions of capture will far outweigh the reasons for deploying such Servicewomen.

Furthermore, sad though it is the general public have become accustomed via media, news stories, charity events etc to seeing UK Servicemen with missing limbs and all that that entails. I'm not saying that females couldn't cope in such circumstances(doubtless they could) but again, how would it sit with the conscience of the Government, Army hierarchy and public in general if we began seeing females in such ever increasing circumstances?

A female Servicewoman was recently removed form the theatre of operations in Afghanistan after it was discovered that she was pregnant. She was in Camp Bastion and had concieved prior to deployment, unbeknownst to her.
Infantry at the FEBA may be working out of a FOB for weeks at a time. What would happen then in similar circumstances?

[LazyGun]

If you believe in the principle of female emancipation and that women are equals, then you should in principle believe that women can fight in the infantry.

The fitness standards for the army - and other military services, as well as for the police and fire brigades have changed in recent memory, and it is my understanding, at least in part, that some of those changes have been introduced to cope with generations of the young that are simply less fit than previous generations.

The issue of pregnancy will apply in any working environment, so nothing different there between the armed forces and civilian life, although I suppose becoming pregnant in the armed forces represents some different challenges for active service, and those circumstances do need to be taken into consideration.

As to the notion of female captives and their treatment - It might be seen as a propaganda coup by the terrorists, but if we as a society were to sanction women as combat troops, I do not really see why the fact that the captive is a woman would make it any more emotive or any worse than if it was a male soldier.The mistreatment of captives by terrorists should rightly be considered appalling, regardless of their gender....