Should Women Aged 40 To 42 And Lesbians Get Fertility Treatment Free Of Charge?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2281402/5-000-children-father-born-fertility-treatment-And-lesbians-IVF-taxpayer.html

/// And – despite fears the cash-strapped health service cannot afford extra burdens – women in same-sex relationships with proven infertility will also be able to get free IVF. Up until now, lesbian couples have had to pay privately for such treatment. ///

[jake-the-peg]

I'm not pointing this at Naomi but sometimes I think certain people want to minimise the NHS ostensibly on grounds of cost as much as possible into some stark Stalinist parody.

They could then point to how dreadful it is and why we should have an American style system.

[emmie]

i would rather see more nurses doing the job they are paid to do, which is care for the sick, and to have clean wards, time to rethink what our priorities are in patient treatment. By all means burns victims should be treated, not exactly sure what that has to do with women who want babies and either can't have them, or indeed leave it very late. Emotive statements doesn't help anyone.

[emmie]

the NHS is not cash strapped, it's just some or a lot of the money is going on totally unnecessary people, and careless accounting practices, losing millions of pounds worth of equipment each year, why should they care after all. It's not as though it's their money, same as stupid wastage in government offices, councils, public money that is squandered left right and centre.

[naomi24]

Jake, //I'm not pointing this at Naomi but sometimes I think certain people want to minimise the NHS ostensibly on grounds of cost as much as possible into some stark Stalinist parody.

They could then point to how dreadful it is and why we should have an American style system. //

Does anyone know what he's talking about - and how he's not pointing that at me?

Yes the NHS does treat other conditions that are not debilitating or life threatening – but it shouldn’t.

[woofgang]

I want to know how, in the interests of equality, gay men are going to be able to get fertility treatment. I don't think that IVF should be available on the NHS at all.

[DangerUXD]

No one should get free fertility treatment full stop. There is not a shortage of people. It's unfortunate that some cannot conceive but it is not the responsibility of the state to provide the means, adopt!

[andy-hughes]

The difficulty in sanctioning one form of free treatment over another comes down to the correct distribution of funds, which dedpends entirely on from which aspect of the funding you are approaching the NHS.

If I was an infertile woman over forty, i would no doubt feel that my case is important, similarly if i was a lesbian looking to have a child, the same would apply.

The difficulty for those in charge is trying to stretch a shortfall budget in a way which allows moral and ethical choices to be accomodated.

I would not however sanction private treatment only for lesbians as this is a fundamental discrimination based on sexual orientation - if women over forty are given free treatment, then that's it - not only women who are heterosexual.

The argument that raises its head is that a large prortion of tax payers feel that supplying fertility treatment to older or lesbian women is wrong - which in my view is predjudice.

That said, I believe that conception is a gift rather than a right, and in my view, if nature has decreed that a woman is not going to conceive, then tragically, that is the situation they are in.

Easy for me to say - i am a\ man with three children - so i honestly have no simple answer to a difficult situation which is both financial and ethical.

[naomi24]

//If I was an infertile woman over forty, i would no doubt feel that my case is important,//

No doubt, but I think it should be remembered that the Welfare State was founded as a safety net. It was never intended to be a ‘wish list’.

[China Doll]

I also do not think that IVF should be available for free.

Sperm and egg storage for life threatening conditions where the treatment will leave you infertile should of course be done, and as far as I know is... or certainly it was when I worked in Andrology a few years ago.

However being infertile is neither an illness nor a disability, and whilst it is sad, it does not require a cure or treatment so that you can become fertile.

[maggiebee]

Precisely Alba - have a friend who did just that and has a healthy, happy 9 year old. She is in a same sex relationship but biological dad is a friend.

[Iluvspikey]

I don't believe fertility treatment should be on the NHS, it is not a right to have children. Doesn't matter to me what sexual orientation a person is, everybody should be treated equally.

[Baldric]

Forget common sense argument, it all boils down to 'Human Rights' if someone gets it into their head that it's their right to have a baby, despite nature saying otherwise, money will be thrown at them.

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// Shouldn't people be treated equally, irrespective of sexual orientation? ///

/// Level playing field and all that? ///

Yes but by the very nature that men cannot bear children, it can never be a level playing field.

Taking this fact in mind means that Lesbians are treated advantageous by the very fact that they can receive IVF treatment so as to produce a child which possesses identical genes to one of the partners, whereas male homosexual couples are forced to adopt complete strangers.

[Baldric]

Or employ a surrogate mother!

[sp1814]

AOG

Nope...we're talking about infertile lesbians, not all lesbians.

So why should an infertile lesbian be treated differently to an infertile heterosexual woman?

[LoftyLottie]

I think Jake and I are singing from the same hymn sheet on this. It is not a black and white area. If I had a disfigurement that was causing me mental anguish I would more than likely get NHS treatment. Is it so very different to offer treatment o the NHS for infertility which is causing mental anguish.

[evedawn]

In my opinion infertility is alwAysvthecresult of "something" in the body not working 100%. (The reasons are
Myriad and include e dometripsus, PCOS.', poor sperm cout etc etc etc) so of course women of any sexual persuasion should get at least two tries at ivf! Sexual persuasion has nothing to do with it as in my opinion being born gay is hardly a choice. Also "theoretically" if a lesbian lady was fertile then theoretically she could ask
Any man to ... Errrm volunteer to fill a turkey vaster. So it's only lesbians whose fertility problems are proved by physical tests etc. so lesbians should be given the option. On women over 40 though I disagree. We all know our biological clocks and so the decision to delay I. That case is her choice and should not be treated on nhs.

Incidentally I'm a heterosexual woman with no kids who had not chosen to have fertility treatment on nhs ever. (Though manysny years ago I did pay to go privately)

[LoftyLottie]

I think there are other areas in the NHS which would be much more money saving than offering IVF to women in the 40 to 42 age bracket.

[LoftyLottie]

I think 40/42 is still way inside child bearing age. Decades ago women were bearing children right up to the menopause with no raised eyebrows or disapproval. There is a natural clock that stops childbirth.

[anotheoldgit]

LoftyLottie

/// Your heading, AOG, implies that Lesbians are not women! ///

Being a little nit-picking aren't we Lottie?

Well let's put it this way I have no knowledge of Men Lesbians, so they must be Women also.