ChatterBank6 mins ago
Is This Close To The Truth
How much truth is there in this thought-provoking piece:
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Billy Bragg This is not a time for celebration. The death of Margaret Thatcher is nothing more than a salient reminder of how Britain got into the mess that we are in today. Of why ordinary working people are no longer able to earn enough from one job to support a family; of why there is a shortage of decent affordable housing; of why domestic growth is driven by...
07:37 Wed 10th Apr 2013
"Also interestingly enough we have not heard a word from Neil Kinnock who was a serious adversary..............it would have been a nice gesture perhaps"
You not hearing it does not mean it did not happen.
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You not hearing it does not mean it did not happen.
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I don’t believe anybody’s opinion is being stifled, Sharingan. But there is a vast difference between stifling opinion and expressing disgust at such events as the “Thatcher Death Celebration Party” held in Brixton yesterday and a similar event held in Bristol.
As you accept, you were not around at the time and can only form an opinion on what you have heard second hand. Well here’s a bit more second hand information. My wife and I married in 1974. Neither of us was rich but nor were we potless because we had both worked hard since leaving school. Neither of us had glamorous or well paid jobs, nor did we have a university education, nor did we have well of parents. We were just keen to make our own way in life as successfully as we could.
Unfortunately our lives were constantly disrupted throughout the 1970s by constant industrial strife created by workers who were far better off than we were. When you got up in the morning you did not know which of the services upon which you relied would grind to a halt. You may have no trains, no buses, no dustmen, or power cuts. The car industry had been brought to its knees by strikes. The dockers were constantly taking “industrial action” leading to shortages of essential goods. In 1974 much of industry was on a three day week because of industrial action by miners. It was an absolute nightmare and people were simply unable to lead normal lives because of constant interruptions to vital industries by heavily unionised workforces intent on bringing down the elected government. That was how life was for large numbers of people in the 1970s.
The people most often cited as victims of Mrs Thatcher’s policies - the miners - had held the nation to ransom three times. They held a strike in 1972 when chasing a 16% pay rise, operated an overtime ban in 1973 (after a 13% rise had been rejected) and went on strike again in 1974 in support of a 21% pay claim. This caused Prime Minister Edward Heath to call a General Election which he lost.
It is well documented what happened when the miners tried to repeat their success in 1984 and it was a mighty relief to people like my wife and me (who were still not among the idle rich) that some semblance of order was restored. It is also interesting to note that no government since then (including the Labour administration which lasted 13 years) has seen fit to repeal the industrial relations laws enacted by Mrs Thatcher’s government.
It would be nice if you could take my views on board when you are forming your opinion about Mrs Thatcher. It would also be interesting to learn why you disagree with almost everything (you have been told) she did.
As you accept, you were not around at the time and can only form an opinion on what you have heard second hand. Well here’s a bit more second hand information. My wife and I married in 1974. Neither of us was rich but nor were we potless because we had both worked hard since leaving school. Neither of us had glamorous or well paid jobs, nor did we have a university education, nor did we have well of parents. We were just keen to make our own way in life as successfully as we could.
Unfortunately our lives were constantly disrupted throughout the 1970s by constant industrial strife created by workers who were far better off than we were. When you got up in the morning you did not know which of the services upon which you relied would grind to a halt. You may have no trains, no buses, no dustmen, or power cuts. The car industry had been brought to its knees by strikes. The dockers were constantly taking “industrial action” leading to shortages of essential goods. In 1974 much of industry was on a three day week because of industrial action by miners. It was an absolute nightmare and people were simply unable to lead normal lives because of constant interruptions to vital industries by heavily unionised workforces intent on bringing down the elected government. That was how life was for large numbers of people in the 1970s.
The people most often cited as victims of Mrs Thatcher’s policies - the miners - had held the nation to ransom three times. They held a strike in 1972 when chasing a 16% pay rise, operated an overtime ban in 1973 (after a 13% rise had been rejected) and went on strike again in 1974 in support of a 21% pay claim. This caused Prime Minister Edward Heath to call a General Election which he lost.
It is well documented what happened when the miners tried to repeat their success in 1984 and it was a mighty relief to people like my wife and me (who were still not among the idle rich) that some semblance of order was restored. It is also interesting to note that no government since then (including the Labour administration which lasted 13 years) has seen fit to repeal the industrial relations laws enacted by Mrs Thatcher’s government.
It would be nice if you could take my views on board when you are forming your opinion about Mrs Thatcher. It would also be interesting to learn why you disagree with almost everything (you have been told) she did.
No, no New Judge - whilst I totally agree with you on Thatcher's achievements (I personally loved the fact that we, in 1979, elected Europe's first female Prime Minister), I find it odd that the brainwashed (yes, let's use that ridiculous term) right-wingers fail to see that there are aspects of her premiership which were incredibly divisive.
Whilst we (and I include myself here) were wallowing in the fat of deregulation, cheap mortgages and the destruction of what made England 'England', did we give a toss for the rest of the country?
Was our collective rottenness borne of the 80s?
By the way - your response is very thought-provoking and well put.
Whilst we (and I include myself here) were wallowing in the fat of deregulation, cheap mortgages and the destruction of what made England 'England', did we give a toss for the rest of the country?
Was our collective rottenness borne of the 80s?
By the way - your response is very thought-provoking and well put.
I remember being so proud as a woman when she was elected, then watching me and everyone around me see their lifestyle deteriorate because they were untrained working class people.
I lived in a mining village of significance when the mine was suddenly and unexpectedly closed and watched people I respected queue up at a soup van for food.
She disgusted me in life and I refuse to hold her in esteem and risk that "respect of the dead" becoming historical perspective when I lived at the wrong end of her policies.
I lived in a mining village of significance when the mine was suddenly and unexpectedly closed and watched people I respected queue up at a soup van for food.
She disgusted me in life and I refuse to hold her in esteem and risk that "respect of the dead" becoming historical perspective when I lived at the wrong end of her policies.
Well I was untrained working class in 1980, guess what? I got trained and got a job, a real one that needed doing rather than an imaginary one that needed heavy weight dogmatic union power to sustain it. They did try and get me to join a union though as my first job was in a local authority. See if you can guess what I told the union rep for Nalgo!
Thanks for the compliments, sp.
No I certainly don’t think everything Mrs T did was great. There were a number of policies with which I did not agree. Among the major policies with which I disagreed were rail privatisation (at least in the way it was done) and water privatisation (I believe domestic water supplies should be funded out of general taxation). Similarly I do not think everything that Blair and Brown did was terrible. Brown in particular made perhaps the greatest single beneficial decision for the UK in many years by keeping the UK out of the Euro.
But of the things with which I disagreed I thought none of them “evil”. They were just policies with which I was not happy. It would be very difficult to agree (or indeed disagree) with everything undertaken by any government which lasted for more than ten years. And this is where I part company with the morons that are now dancing on Mrs T’s grave. Many of them were not born when she left office and many more were not old enough to know what was going on before she took power. I can only call it as I see it and as an ordinary Joe trying to make his way in the world Mrs T’s policies certainly gave me the confidence and most importantly the ability to shape my own destiny. They also sorted out the ridiculous state of affairs which had brought this country down in the 1970s.
Yes, with hindsight I imagine some of her policies were devisive. But nobody around then offered a credible or workable alternative. But she left office nearly a quarter of a century ago and peoplel harping on about how they are still affected by her are about as credible as I would have been if, in 1974, I moaned about how Anthony Eden was still ruining my life.
I would not celebrate the death of any politician, however much I disagreed with them. Those doing so today are childish and many of them ill informed.
No I certainly don’t think everything Mrs T did was great. There were a number of policies with which I did not agree. Among the major policies with which I disagreed were rail privatisation (at least in the way it was done) and water privatisation (I believe domestic water supplies should be funded out of general taxation). Similarly I do not think everything that Blair and Brown did was terrible. Brown in particular made perhaps the greatest single beneficial decision for the UK in many years by keeping the UK out of the Euro.
But of the things with which I disagreed I thought none of them “evil”. They were just policies with which I was not happy. It would be very difficult to agree (or indeed disagree) with everything undertaken by any government which lasted for more than ten years. And this is where I part company with the morons that are now dancing on Mrs T’s grave. Many of them were not born when she left office and many more were not old enough to know what was going on before she took power. I can only call it as I see it and as an ordinary Joe trying to make his way in the world Mrs T’s policies certainly gave me the confidence and most importantly the ability to shape my own destiny. They also sorted out the ridiculous state of affairs which had brought this country down in the 1970s.
Yes, with hindsight I imagine some of her policies were devisive. But nobody around then offered a credible or workable alternative. But she left office nearly a quarter of a century ago and peoplel harping on about how they are still affected by her are about as credible as I would have been if, in 1974, I moaned about how Anthony Eden was still ruining my life.
I would not celebrate the death of any politician, however much I disagreed with them. Those doing so today are childish and many of them ill informed.
I don't think I'm childish New Judge. In fact I know I'm not and it is rude of you to suggest I am because you don't like my opinion.
I think it is easy to pontificate about the pros and cons of Thatcher's reign when you were weighted towards the pros.
Anyone who was at the con end can see how destructive she was.
As for my education. You have no idea DangerUXB.
I think it is easy to pontificate about the pros and cons of Thatcher's reign when you were weighted towards the pros.
Anyone who was at the con end can see how destructive she was.
As for my education. You have no idea DangerUXB.
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