Are Some Of Our Young Becoming More Sadistically Violent, Than They Ever Were In The Past?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2309431/Linda-Doran-Judges-verdict-mother-eldest-son-jail-murder-caged-kicking-tramp-death.html

What makes three youngsters attack and kill a lone man just for the fun of it, or was their future mapped out for them as soon as they came into the world?

The two Brothers also had another brother already in jail for murder, and their 'Mother' was also jailed because she had given the pair a false alibi to shield them from detectives.

[LazyGun]

@ Fred LoL! v.droll..

[anotheoldgit]

jim360

/// I don't claim to have the answers. But I don't think your idea of returning to earlier values will work. The world has moved on. Better to move with it than move backward. ///

I am afraid your look back into ancient history is a little out of place here, this is not about adult crime, it's about our young killing adults just for the heck of it, and if that is because the world has moved on, then no it is not better to move with it than move backward.

I personally know what youngsters were like before, during and a little after WW2, do you?

[jim360]

Well, equally I know what they are like today. And most (probably almost all) of them are not like this. You are exaggerating the problem.

P.S. I also know the history of children as young as 12 being mothers, or as young as 7 having to care for their family.

[anotheoldgit]

andy-hughes

/// " ...maybe the time isn't far off that one must sit a "suitability to become a parent" exam, before being allowed to take on the task?" ///

/// I know you are a right-winger AOG - I never had you down as a Nazi! ///

I am not, because I know what it is really like to be on the receiving end of the Nazis, which I am sure you do not.

I was simply addressing the future, taking into account this present day dream of left-wingers, that being 'social engineering' and that is much more nearer to Communism.

[anotheoldgit]

jim360

/// Well, equally I know what they are like today. And most (probably almost all) of them are not like this. You are exaggerating the problem. ///

And you are also exaggerating by saying that I am, I never said that they are all like that today or even most of them.

Read my question ARE SOME OF OUR YOUNG BECOMING MORE SADISTICALLY VIOLENT, THAN THEY EVER WERE IN THE PAST?

The secret is in those two words "ARE SOME"

/// P.S. I also know the history of children as young as 12 being mothers, or as young as 7 having to care for their family. ///

???????????????????

How is that relevant to these three young monsters?

[jim360]

It's relevant loosely. The point is that you can trawl through history and paint a very black picture of it. Horrible, horrible lives some people led. And violence and horror were not just confined to adults, but children too. I don't see how we are worse off today. So it is relevant. Because you continually imply that somehow the present is worse than the past, that standards are always falling, that your childhood was a golden age. It was not. Nor, for that matter, is the present. There are some very rare cases of horribly violent children. But it's not a modern phenomenon.

[sebhfhion]

I know I am coming late into this debate but would just like to stick up a bit for the youth of today. I drive a bus that takes 'disadvantaged' kids out on trips and they also come visit us as we have a bit of a small holding. The kids come full of hell effing and blinding and basically showing off. Within a few hours they are listening and learning and polite . They are given rules and stick by them because they are told why they should not do things and are treated with respect. They have a line in the sand which not many have in the home environment. I've had little bruisers call me an effing C then four hours later give me a hug and asking if they can come back and visit. I know what they are going back to and its heartbreaking. So we've missed the boat as far as I'm concerned: at the moment a lot of parenting is at fault, no boundaries set no lines drawn. The key would be to educate the children and hope they don't parent their kids like they have been parented but unfortunately I think its too late.

[anotheoldgit]

jim360

/// Because you continually imply that somehow the present is worse than the past, that standards are always falling, that your childhood was a golden age. It was not. ///

And you know that for certain do you, how old are you?

All I can do is to comment on a lifetime of experience, not what I have read but what I have witnessed in life.

What benefit would I gain from trying to convince others that some things were better in the past than today?

[andres]

Jim360.I don't understand what your statement about young mums has to do with this post. You and AOG seem to have a vendetta going . I lived through WW2 and can understand where AOG is coming from. Of course there were crimes in the 40s/50s but not the senseless ,violent ones like today.Children led uncomplicated lives, revelling in playing outdoors (No video games or electronic gadgets).Apart from 'don't speak to strangers ' parents didn't seem to offer any other advice. Children walked to school and back safely.We played out without supervision .
If fights broke out in the playground they would be on a one onto one basis.
No putting the boot in (that came later in the 60s/70s).I went on to have five children and have been a nursery nurse .I also worked with psychiatric patients for twenty years (Including glue sniffers,drug addicts, alcoholics).I enjoyed my working life .Now I look back, like AOG, and can offer first hand experience of life not something I have read in books.
With regard to the violence of today --it would be too simplistic just to blame video games etc.It is a much more complex situation .
I will say however that visual impact has much more effect on children than we sometimes realise. Just to go back to the films on TV years ago.We didn't have to look at the tv times to know what film had just been shown. Kids poured out onto the street. Running up and down the street with black bin liners flapping would mean Batman(or was it Superman) . Leaping about , scratching under their arms and climbing trees --Tarzan and of course home made bow /arrows --Robin Hood.I'm sure some of you will remember doing all of these ?Then there were the Ping-Pong tennis games (how tame were these compared with todays video games) But they kept children occupied. Then the Atari ,combining skill with shooting asteroids. Since then video games have become increasingly more violent and as I said before whilst they might not be wholly responsible they might be having an adverse effect on some of our more vulnerable youngsters.

[Sqad]

andres.......good post...that was my experience too.
But before that we would go and see Roy Rogers and Trigger (his horse) and then would pour out of the cinemas and divide into cowboys and indians.............I cannot recall the type of violence that we see today.

[Sharingan]

I would like to say that ' most' children today are not violent. 'Some' are. I'm sure this has been true throughout history but ' in your day' ( please don't take that disrespectfully, it's not meant that way at all) there was a less efficient media, and crime, even murder remained fairly local.
This is an interesting link which discusses older crimes committed by children.
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/weird/kids2/index_1.html

[Sqad]

Shari

\\\there was a less efficient media, and crime, even murder remained fairly local.\\

That is ALWAYS the argument, but in the 50's and 60's we didn't sit in Igloos anf huddled up to keep warm, we did have radio, very efficient newspapers and of course the start of TV.

Murders didn't stay local....as far as i know and one could keep up with the current murder, but i am blowed if i can keep up with murders now.

[andy-hughes]

AOG - interesting that you pick up on my point about you being a potential Nazi - with your usual history lesson - and refer to 'social engineeering' as being Socialist! If you were aquainted, even indirectly with the Nazis, then the experiments and philosopy of Dr Mengle will be be familair to you - not to much of a hero of socialism, and left-wingers i am sure you will agree.

As to my point about education, the xperiences of my family, and your ferences to Social Services which i did not mention - you seem to have forgotten to respond there!

[society]

I think technology and lack of manners is mostly to blame for the violence amongst the youths/society of today.

[jim360]

It's not a vendetta, and I think in retrospect that the young mums point wasn't very coherent. But I'm fairly bored of hearing of the past described as idyllic and the present day as somehow slipping standards. Again, the point is that this is constantly the refrain of the previous generation. At some point soon I really ought to dig up supporting quotes, but "the youth of today is disrespectful" is a quote that can be, that has been, seen throughout the ages. All I am trying to say is that AOG's point is no different.

[Sharingan]

Sqad, yes I agree in the 50's and 60's that's certainly true, but there was a case in the 40's of a second murder victim not being aware that the man she was leaving with was a murderer because the first case had not been adequately reported, but I cannot remember the name of the crime in question to link to it, so certainly there is at least limited validity in the idea that media wasn't quite as efficient as it is now.xx

[Sqad]

jim/shari....I agree and all we are trying to say that it does not tally with our experience.

Yes......we may well be wrong.

[jim360]

Possibly. Or perhaps standards have declined after all and I'm wrong. Still, you can hardly blame me for trying to defend my current generation!

[Sqad]

jim....LOL