Should The Pm Get Involved For These Criminals?

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22334081
Surely it's up to the nation concerned over how they deal with drug dealers.

[Sqad]

Well, if they were all three British subjects and there was evidence of torture, then yes, he or the Foreign Office should be involved.

[Sharingan]

Absolutely.

[Old_Geezer]

There is the thing. The nation when the crime is alleged to have occurred is most involved in how it deals with its criminals, but the nation for whom the accused are citizens, has a valid interest in how they are treated, and whether it is according to international agreements. It is right that citizens are not just abandoned by their country simply because they have been accused of wrongdoing. Whether the PM should be personally concerned or whether it should be left to the Foreign Office diplomats, is a fair question though.

[tamborine]

no, since the gov ignore this poor woman

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/british-woman-lindsay-sandiford-loses-appeal-against-bali-death-sentence-for-drug-smuggling-8564948.html

[Hopkirk]

Poor woman?

I think not.

[Old_Geezer]

That a country is sufficiently unenlightened to still have a death sentence, is not something another country one can do a lot about. Although one may ask for clemency. But how the prisoner is treated beforehand may be something one has a legitimate complaint about. It is also true that if insufficient was done in one case then that ought not set a standard so insufficient must be done in all cases that follow. That is surely not something we should advocate.

[ludwig]

You're assuming they're guilty, but they deny the charges.

Countries like this are godforsaken hellholes. They might have 21st century technology, but in other ways they're a good few hundred years behind the times. IMO these people were stupid to go there in the first place for any reason, but that doesn't make them guilty of a crime or fair game for torture.

OG is right. If they've been through a proper judicial process they have to face the punishment, but if they've just had confessions tortured out of them it's only right that the government steps in to try and protect them - they promise as much on everyone's passport.

[Svejk]

Yeah, that'd make sense.
Dubai spends millions (billions?) turning the country into a holiday destination & then plucks 3 random tourists off the streets, fits them up & tortures them.
While I appreciate it makes you feel good parading your liberal credentials on here you really need to temper them with a dose of reality once in a while.
///Legal rights charity Reprieve said the charges should have been dropped and the men - who went on trial in February - should be released because of the torture allegations///
Ho ho ho, you couldn't make it up, you really couldn't.

[New Judge]

Imagine if a foreign national were to be tried for a matter in the UK and the government of that person's home nation tried to influence the outcome of that trial and/or sentence. We'd tell them - quite rightly - to mind their own business.

And so it should be with this case. It's unfortunate that some nations have a different view of justice and sentencing to our own. But that's something that should be borne in mind before going there.

[jim360]

I'm not sure I can accept that, this time -- again I think it presupposes that these people, or indeed any British nationals arrested in a foreign country, are guilty. If I went to Dubai, or Bali, or somewhere, on legitimate reasons and got falsely arrested and tortured, I'm 99.9% sure I would crack and confess (pretty damn quickly) to whatever they wanted me to confess to. Whether I did it or not. So it's important to at the very least question this, to ensure that the accused's rights have been respected. They may end up being guilty. Still have rights to a fair trial though. And if the country they are in doesn't respect that, the legal process of that country should be held to account, because torture seems to me to increase the risk of a false conviction.

[FredPuli43]

This ties in with that bit in your UK passport about requiring, of all those whom it may concern, that the bearer to be afforded such assistance and protection as may be necessary. When they don't behave like that, Her Majesty's government will afford such help as may be needed, within obvious limits.

[Canary42]

How much effort did the UK Government put into stopping the torture at Guantanamo Bay ?

And weren't there UK citizens incarcerated there ?

[FredPuli43]

We got all the Britons in "gitmo" out , didn't we? And, to the irritation of the US, let them free as soon as they got back. Doubtless we made standard statements about deploring torture while not accusing the US of it !

[youngmafbog]

//then plucks 3 random tourists off the streets, fits them up & tortures them. // You have proof of that? Seems it is the stock answer to get attention and get the ooman rights brigade jumping up and down. The Dubai Police claim they had drugs, why would they want to fit someone up, doesn't make sense?

//
Old_Geezer
That a country is sufficiently unenlightened to still have a death sentence//

Surely should have read

Old_Geezer
That a country is sufficiently enlightened to still have a death sentence

[jake-the-peg]

Here are the guys accounts of what happened

Read them and tell me whether or not you still think we should not get involved

http://www.reprieve.org.uk/cases/grant_karl_suneet_dubai_torture/

[jim360]

ymb - Execution just leads to innocent people getting killed by the state.

[ummmm]

Jake, makes for grim reading.

[LazyGun]

If a foreign national were to be tried in the UK, at the very least that foreign government will get consular access; will be assured that the foreign national has not and will not be tortured; and will not face the death penalty.

And as for interfering- the government of any country has the right to ask questions about the fate of its citizens.

British nationals cannot have the same security when they visit places like Dubai, Bahrain, Malaysia and a host of other countries.

Oh, and there is nothing enlightened about having the death penalty. State sanctioned execution just drags us all by implication into the mire where the murderers and the terrorists live..... thanks, but no thanks...

[anotheoldgit]

/// However, Doctor Abdul-Kallek Abdulla, a professor of political science in the UAE, told BBC Radio Five Live there was no proof to support the torture claims and "absolutely no truth" to the allegations heard in the British media. ///

Might this be just a reverse of the "you can't send me back to my own country because i will be tortured"?