Bedroom Tax

[marje]

So, there's been a suicide because of the 'bedroom tax'. Poor woman couldn't afford the £80 per month for 2 empty bedrooms when her children left home. How many more before it's abolished?

[Sharingan]

My age is not catching to me Jim, I simply have a different view of life and death than you do, and you refuse to respect that, which I find disappointing.Z euhl and Woofgang however seem to understand my point perfectly, I wonder how old they are, I would guess not 15.

[emmie]

moving away from your area, family, friends, how does that help anyone to cope, for heavens sake.

[Zeuhl]

jim

I'm sure you are right in most of what you say, but you are missing one fundamental point:

/Your life isn't worth making such a point over./

That is not YOUR decision

[Sqad]

Zeuhl

\\\\"I applied all the recommended treatments and procedures as documented, but ultimately the deceased made their own decision\\\

I agree, but our hypothetical suicidal person does not want that line of mental management...........she does want to die.

[Sharingan]

So let me get this right Sqad, ANYONE who wants to kill themselves is mentally ill? Where does that leave the staff and clients of the Dignitas clinic for example? Surely by the reckoning of you and Jim it should just be closed down?

[jim360]

It may not be my decision, but I can still express an opinion on it.

What is your point, though? I don't think that Zeuhl is going quite as far as you are, anyway.

This is not the government's fault. It is not the woman's fault, either, and I didn't say that, or certainly didn't mean to imply it. You seem to have dragged the argument away from the specifics of the case, where a woman killed herself both without, on reflection, legitimate and rational reasons for doing so, and in a sadly public way. And dragged it towards a general argument in favour of ignoring people who want to kill themselves, because "oh it's all perfectly rational to want to kill yourself in certain cases". That may be so, though I expect the number of cases I would kill myself in is fewer than yours. The point, though, is that this was not one of those cases.

[Sqad]

Shari

\\\So let me get this right Sqad, ANYONE who wants to kill themselves is mentally ill?\\

Yes OR terminally ill.

[Zeuhl]

/ANYONE who wants to kill themselves is mentally ill?\\ Yes OR terminally ill. /

OK

So it's a bit like anyone who wants to emigrate to New Zealand?

[Sqad]

Zeuhl.....I don't get your simile.

[Zeuhl]

sorry sqad

you're not from New Zealand are you?

[Sharingan]

Oh so the goalposts have moved a little bit then :)

[emmie]

whilst some have been going with the idea that she must have had mental health issues, she may have had, but she left various notes blaming the current situation, and where were the properties that she was offered. were they far from where she lived, her family, friends. And for those who don't think suicide is a spur of the moment thing, it certainly can be.

[Sqad]

Zeuhl....LOL.....No, but i know a few kiwis.

Shari....."goalposts? I see no goalposts"

We will have to agree to disagree about the normality or otherwise of a person contemplating suicide.

[ummmm]

Two people involved deeply in my life have taken their own lives. Neither had anything to do with money.

They were mentally ill and with hindsight we should have spotted that....but we didn't.

The only thing about suicide that I do not think it's part of mental health is assisted suicide where someone has a terminal illness/paralysis. That's a life style choice, not a mental health choice.

[Psybbo]

Perhaps a normal person trying to cope with an abnormal situation?

[magsmay]

Sqad -I doubt if many, if any, other people on here have actually been to a suicide inquest other than you and I (I'm sure I'll be immediately corrected on this) neither will many have diagnosed and treated or arranged treatment for people showing signs of mental health issues -so how about you and I slinking off for a pre-prandial cocktail -it must be about 5ish where you are -we must have at least 60 years experience in the medical and mental health field between us -but lets leave it to the 15 year old experts and armchair psychologists -you coming sqaddy? ;-)

[emmie]

perfectly rational, sane people kill themselves, a love affair gone wrong, husband or wife walked out the door, and you lose your job, it happens a lot. That is not mental illness, that is a momentary idea, and no taking it back.

[jim360]

For a case of comparative statistics, though, there were about 17,300 suicide cases in the UK across people aged 15 or older between 2009 and 2011. Since 2009, there have been 68 cases of assisted suicide or euthanasia brought before the CPS. Allowing this to be an underestimate, the number of people committing suicide, of which almost all are for reasons related to depression or mental health, or just too much bad happening all at once, is about 173 times greater than assisted suicide cases.

The problem of mental health and suicide is one that should not be ignored, or overlooked, and where possible these people need help to overcome the challenges facing them. Yes, at the end of the day we cannot stop people from making the decision to kill themselves if they so choose. But we should certainly, if we find out, at least try to help them find an alternative, if there is one.

[magsmay]

trigger -I heard someone -you will not believe this -actually had to do their weekly shop in Lidl -really - all because of this Bedroom Tax -what next????