Zero Hours Contracts

[mikey4444]

At last the truth is beginning to creep out ::::

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23570345

I was listening to the Today program this morning and a care worker was being interviewed. She said, amongst other things, that she wasn't paid for her time travelling between her patients and that this resulted in her total pay being below the minimum wage. How can this be allowed ? Minimum wage laws were brought in to stop this kind of exploitation of workers.

It would seem to me that the whole issue of zero hours contracts should be looked at with some urgency, with a view to outlawing them asap.

[hc4361]

Tora - people don't usually get paid for travelling to their static place of work such as an office or factory they work in all day, every day.

It's not unusual to get paid travelling time and expenses when your job requires you to move from place to place throughout the working day.

[mikey4444]

Well said jc...would have thought that was obvious.

[LazyGun]

I think these contracts have their place for temporary or bank or agency staff,perhaps registering to work occasionally for a single employer.

But there is more than a hint of a suspicion that some employers are abusing the contracts, to the detriment of their workforce. Yes, we should be favouring the creation of jobs - but I am not sure that I agree with the notion that it should be jobs at any cost.

[pixie373]

I agree with hc. My last job was for a homecare agency. I would work for 7 hours, for instance, and get paid for 3.25 (i did work it out from rota). We didn't get paid travelling time, as that was our "break" although still expected to answer the phone if necessary. We also didn't get petrol paid, although the clients were charged it. Balanced out with the work and travel (and ignoring petrol) i was well under minimum wage.
We got £3.25 for a 15 minute call, which ignored 20 mins to get there and 20 mins back.

[Mosaic]

Tora - in all the local government jobs I've done, I was paid (generously, not at starvation level) for 37.5 hours a week, and on top of that if I had to travel between locations that time counted as part of my 37.5 hours allocation, and I was paid a mileage and subsistence allowance in addition.
'It's the rich wot gets the gravy, it's the poor wot gets the blame....'

[Hypognosis]

The logical reaction to being treated like a doormat is to simply resign and seek some other line of work.

Of course, few can afford this luxury. And the employers evidently know it. As long as there are 2 million-plus unemployed, they're loving it.

[pixie373]

Not necessarily, hypognosis. My sister and i started our own homecare business. If everyone did that, the agencies wouldn't last long. The majority of our clients have come from other big agencies and are sick of the way they're treated by them.

[Hypognosis]

//The majority of our clients have come from other big agencies and are sick of the way they're treated by them. //

I'm confused. When you said 'clients', did you mean to say 'employees'?

[Mamyalynne]

If Pixie doesn't mind me answering - 'Clients' are those being cared for.

[arwyn]

Macdonalds have zero hours contracts and loads of the big companies don't pay minimum wage --- Sainsbury's is one of them.

[pixie373]

Yes.sorry, mamya is right. We don't have employees.

[joggerjayne]

Yikes ...

I'm starting to feel like a baddie.

I suppose Olive works on a zero hour basis. We just agree each week which days she will come in the following week.

[Hypognosis]

@pixie and Mamyalynne,

thanks for explaining.

I get leaflets through the door offering 'homecare' all the time but, by that, they mean specialist cleaning services. One letter difference for 'home-carer', meaning what you do. A bit pedantic but that's just me.

Anyway, if your competitors are treating the clients badly, as well as putting their employees on zero hours, how the heck do they remain in business?

[pixie373]

Because so many people need care. There will always be new clients coming along. They might leave a year or so later, but others will replace them. We were always on zero hours contracts too. To be fair, there was always work, but what would happen would be that we got sent a rota on Friday for the following week, so you didn't know what hours you were working much in advance. Also, say, if i gave my "availability" as 9-5, they might book me 9-12. But. Expect me to remain available (unpaid on-call) in case something else came up. Disorganised places!

[Hypognosis]

@pixie,

that sounds like a list of all the reasons parents would use to dissuade their offspring from going into the acting profession...

It also sounds like a classic case of divide and rule. Was there a history of industrial action, back in the days when elderly care was all still in-house, within the N H S?

[pixie373]

I don't know. There have always been complaints, i suspect, but always an excuse. Laws about how long someone should rest between shifts are ignored in Care homes, because the law states "except in exceptional circumstances" and Managers say Care homes are exceptional, as people live in them.
In homecare, we were told at the beginning we wouldn't be paid for petrol- but they guaranteed we wouldn't drive more than 3 miles per shift (so similar to driving to an office). That never happened and they just denied saying it.
Carers aren't in the job expecting to make money,which, maybe, doesn't help.

[EDDIE51]

There has been a discussion on zero hours contracts on the radio today and an interesting point was raised. The zero hours works both ways, in other words the employee can refuse the work if they want, to there is no compulsion to always work if offered the chance.
Employers seem to think it is all in their favour and they can demand people be ready to go anywhere any time . If that was the case you would never have any other life , just stood by the phone waiting for work that may never come. The rules on this need to be made clear to both sides, at the moment it is all in the employers favour.

[pixie373]

That's exactly how i found it, Eddie. We had to give 28 days notice, in writing, for a day off, on a zero hours contract.

[Hopkirk]

The unions say they want to ban zero hours contracts, and I hope they don't succeed.

I have a second job which is on a zero hours contract - I work when I want if there is a shift available. It suits me

[EDDIE51]

pixie, yes that is how it is now , but it is wrong.
I am a temp and i can and do turn down work , yesterday I was offered 5 hours work but they didn't phone until 11,30 am and expected me to be at the workplace 18 miles away within 30 mins !. I would have done it but I was already on the way to see another member of my family.
hopkirk , I do not want them banned but it must be made clear that it works both ways as I said. At the moment a zero hours contract can be near to slavery ( they expect you to stay home by the phone all day just in case they want you to do an hour or two) , the traveling time needs to be addressed as well .
Ratter, I know several care workers in the same situation you describe , it is just not right that people can be exploited in this way.