Zero Hours Contracts

[mikey4444]

At last the truth is beginning to creep out ::::

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23570345

I was listening to the Today program this morning and a care worker was being interviewed. She said, amongst other things, that she wasn't paid for her time travelling between her patients and that this resulted in her total pay being below the minimum wage. How can this be allowed ? Minimum wage laws were brought in to stop this kind of exploitation of workers.

It would seem to me that the whole issue of zero hours contracts should be looked at with some urgency, with a view to outlawing them asap.

[factor-fiction]

I work for an agency and often get 2 jobs in a day- maybe 3 hours in the morning and 2 in the afternoon or evening.. I only get paid for the hours I work. The travelling is not paid for. However maybe there is a difference in that I can turn down a job if it's not worth my while whereas a care worker presumably has to go.

It does seem wrong if travelling is an accepted part of the job. I'd be interested to hear the Today story- maybe we didn't get all the facts

[EDDIE51]

I work as a temp for a agency some weeks there is work sometimes there is none is this any different?

[ummmm]

My aunt is a care worker who doesn't drive. Some days she spends as many hours on the bus/waiting for the bus as she does working.

She doesn't get paid for travel.

[factor-fiction]

I'm the same, Eddie. It's summer holidays for schools so I won't get any work at all (or pay) in schools for 6-7 weeks and will just get 2-3 hours work each week tutoring (paid for by the local authority).

[Sqad]

I must confess that i do not understand Zero hours or had ever heard of it BUT, if the choice is between being "on the dole" OR taking Zero hours, i, personally would take the latter.

Odd how working practices have changed over the last 50 years.
Then it was a standing joke in the public sector.....3 men came to do a job, but at any given time, only one would be working and two "supervising." Now today unless one is working, one is not paid.

Things change eh?

[woofgang]

In the NHS, zero hours contracts have been used for some time to benefit both staff and services and have nothing to do with not being paid for travel time. We had a a small cohort of staff who wanted school hours work or summer holiday hours work or some other non standard arrangement. we would set them up on a zero hours contract which meant that their CRB wouldn't need to be redone, health interviews, salary setup and so on stayed in place. They would phone us when they wanted to work, or we would phone round if we needed extra hands and it worked very well. The key thing is that it was used to benefit both staff and service. Like anything else it can be misused.

[mikey4444]

I too work for a polling and research company that doesn't guarantee any work, but I usually get some every week. I'm not sure if this is classed as a zero hours contract.

My concern is with the travelling time. When I do work for my polling company, I am paid travelling time to and from the area that I am working in, and I am also paid mileage money from my home and back again at the end of the day. This is important as I sometimes have to travel 120 miles to the area each day and back.

A lot of these zero hours contracts seem to be in the home care sector. Is it any wonder that there have been so many causes for concern in this area recently ?

[factor-fiction]

But zero hours contracts and payments for travelling time are two separate issues.

[Mosaic]

I feel the whole issue boils down to the fact that many employers are unscrupulous and will readily exploit vulnerable workers. There is nothing ostensibly wrong with agreeing to work 'as and when', but thenconsider the actual wages given, the unfairness of not being paid to travel from client A to client B, and the fact that some employers will deduce cash for uniforms.
Try docking an MP their wages for getting from their country pad to Westminster, or stopping a surgeon the hours taken between one hospital and another - get my drift?

[emmie]

i never got paid travel time between temp jobs.. as said two different issues. can't imagine working in so stressful way again, not knowing you are going to get work, pay that week,

[RATTER15]

We have carers coming to MIL 4 times a day, they are on little over minimum wage, they travel 3.5 miles to get to us (on average) and are here for 30 minutes and that is all they get paid for, in our last house they were only in attendance for 15 minutes for some vistis and some had to walk 2 miles to get to us, for that 15 mins work and over an hour walking they were paid £1.75.

We heard from one carer only 2 days ago saying that she has another job as she was fed up with working for 13 hours and getting paid for 7 hours, the rest of the time was taken up walking.

Totally ridiculous!

[mikey4444]

FF...they appear to be inextricably linked, at least as far as this mornings interview on Today is concerned.

I accept that these contracts probably suit a lot of people but the main reason for them is to benefit the employer, like Sports Direct. This company has made so much money that it can afford to give back some good bonuses to a small proportion of its workers.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/jul/28/sports-direct-staff-zero-hour-contracts

There is a forum about this subject, that some people might find helpful ::

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?388058-Zero-hour-contract-and-holiday-sick-pay

Seems that the charge of Britain as a low-pay economy may be valid !

[RATTER15]

EDDIE51
"I work as a temp for a agency some weeks there is work sometimes there is none is this any different?"

Yes Eddie, very different, these are not temp jobs, these carers take on these jobs as their only job and they have very little say in what hours they work as they need the money, and the company have a legal commitment to provide these services at given times of the day so their employees must work these odd and infrequent hours and if the carer doesn't have a car it can be really hard, especially in the more rural areas where the buses are infrequent and often no buses going to some ares. No buses come near my house!

[McMouse]

Zero hours contacts are similar to guaranteed hour contracts. We used to employ call-centre staff to whom we guaranteed a minimum of 400 hours per year with a maximum of 40 hours per week. They were liable to be called in at fairly short notice as work loads dictated. They were able to book leave etc without penalty. For every person accepted for training we probably turned away at least 20.

[hc4361]

If a person on the dole turns down a zero hours contract he could lose his benefits.
If he takes the job he will lose his benefits and may go many weeks without work, or pay.
Impossible to get a mortgage if you're on zero hour contracts; difficult to balance the budget when you can't rely on a minimum amount of money coming in.

[emmie]

hc very good points...

[factor-fiction]

Hi Ratter- I'm not sure why you see a big difference between what Eddie and I do (temping through an agency) and zero hours contracts.

Like the carers you mention, my teaching assignments are my only job too I too need the money. Whilst I can in theory turn down work if the hours or travelling are unreasonable I very rarely do it as schools would stop asking for me and the agency would stop using me too

[mikey4444]

McMouse...not sure how zero hours contracts and guaranteed hours contracts can be similar ? The clue is in the title surely ? If zero hours was applied to your call centre, then you could have the situation where people are not been offered any work but prevented from taking another job, because they have to make themselves available. OK for people who only need a few hours money but entirely useless to someone who has to run a home.

The only reason I find my work and its hours convenient is that I have a small pension coming in every month. If these flexible hours were around 30 years ago, it is highly unlikely that I would have been able to get a mortgage. I can't imagine how people manage when the hours are so uncertain.

Your experience of people clamouring to work at your call centre is indicative of the desperation of people to find employment these days.

Proper jobs, proper wages is what is needed.

Amazon is one of the worst perpetrators of bad working practise ::
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2382800/Tagged-bosses-zero-hour-Amazon-workers-Employees-guaranteed-income.html

I used to buy from Amazon but haven't since 2011 precisely because of the shocking way that they treat people. And Amazon don't seem to see the need to pay any tax in Britain either !!!!

Its also worth pointing out that these workers are paid so little, that they are still able to claim social security benefits at the same time. So tax payers are subsidising shyster companies, allowing them to make huge profits. How should we tax payers feel about that ?

[mikey4444]

Yes...well done hc.

[ToraToraTora]

who gets paid for travelling time? Not me anyway and I dont know any jobs that do pay it.