Jon Venables

[Eve]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2409521/Jon-Venables-freed-James-Bulger-killer-secretly-released-jail-given-FOURTH-new-identity.html

Can anyone remind me, I know the families were taken to new areas, I think with new identities, after it happened, does anyone know if this is still the case and whether Thompson and Venables are able to have any contact with their families? Just something I was wondering when this news story came out.

I wonder what the cost has been generally of all the new identities, and repeated ones in the case of Venables, of all parties and whether it is justified. Especially, if, as alleged with Venables, he confessed to his identity and returned to Merseyside from where he was banned.

It reminds me of the case of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman too, didn't the girlfriend get released with a new identity too.

I wonder how much we are paying to keep these people safe and whether it is justified. I'm interests in the thoughts of others.

[sandyRoe]

If society stopped trying to keep them safe the likely alternative would be that they'd be murdered by vigilantes.

[Octavius]

I think in the main, that only immediate family members will be in contact but even then its only through the progamme, so anyone who decides to go into the scheme with the caseperson must also change identity and lose all existing contacts with all friends and family from that point on.

This is slightly different as it deals with witness protection rather than offender protection, but I would imagine the case scenarios are very similar.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/special-report-life-in-witness-protection-2075422.html

My initial thoughts on this case when I heard it over breakfast, was that even though the lad has been incarcerated for most of his young adult life, the applied criminal corrective system is not working, and I was left wondering whether he is virtually institutionalised and will end up going back anyway.

[youngmafbog]

probably - and ..... ?

Perhaps if we had proper sentencing then there would be no vigilantes.

Venables should simply not be on the street. End of problem.

[joggerjayne]

This is a tricky one.

Most people disapprove of vigilantes. It leads to anarchy.

But most people secretly hope that someone finds them.

It's a moral minefield.

[viv38]

Every time I hear news like this, I just feel so sorry for Jamie's Mum who has to relive it all again, poor soul.

Yes, Huntley's girlfriend did get a new identity, apparently she's married with a baby now.

[viv38]

And I agree with young.

[andy-hughes]

youngmafbog - "Perhaps if we had proper sentencing then there would be no vigilantes."

It's a nice idea, but that is what it is, not reality.

Vigilanteism is born of a sense of outrage and frustration, and a belief that the law fails the public, and some summmary justice is the right and proper reaction.

The problems start when the self-righteous individuals who think it is beholden on them to set things right start to get their information wrong - confusing paedeatricians with paedophiles for example.

The law is a long way from perfect, but it is a system of checks and balances formed without emotion, and as such will always be preferable to lunch mobs roaming the streets with pick-axe handles.

[pixie373]

Venables does seem to be better protected than the rest of us. Most of us have to live with the consequences of the things we do. Venables should remain locked up, imo. He hasn't shown any improvement at all. That doesn't excuse vigilantes though. If someone kills Venables, they are a killer too, no matter what their reasons are.

[bazwillrun]

Well whoda thought the do-gooders and hand wringers with their useless degrees in social science etc would see fit to release him !?

I take it these are the same useless lot that predicted he was safe to let out the first time or is it another bunch of incompetant imbeciles

Its plain to see hes obviously not a risk anymore.......

[nescio]

andy,
I am intrigued by the idea of "lunch mobs" armed with pickaxe handles, roaming the streets. Are they on the lookout for people who are having lunch, or not having it?

[andy-hughes]

nescio - LOL!

I really must learn that i am simply too old to multi-task, I either need to listen to The Rutles, or type on AB - but not both at the same time.

[Octavius]

The lunch mobs were the original pastie tax enforcers.

[anneasquith]

the cost to the tax payer must be tremendous. but those poor parents, are these murderers ever going to be ''out of the newspapers ''?

[Eve]

It must just be like the re-opening of such a painful wound for them, time and time again (Jamie Bulger's parents).

I think it is difficult to reconcile personal feelings about this particular case with the legal framework we have (and what had to be looked into when they were sentenced, released etc...), especially if you know many of the details which were never reported in the press, I remember it coming up during my law degree and I refused to read the entire case when I heard some of it, I just couldn't.

I imagine the new identities for Venables must be harder and harder to manage, especially as he has been known of as an adult.

[joko]

its not just to protect them its to protect innocent people who may in the heat of the moment ruin their own lives in anger

the biggest problem is all the mistakes - there are numerous stories of people being attacked abused etc because someone thinks they are one of these boys and also a woman - who bore no resemblance at all to huntley girlfriend was hounded and attacked etc.

it is believed sometimes people want revenge on a person for whatever reason, so all they need to is spread rumours online and locally that this person is in hiding - and bingo, the hated person becomes a target - because many idiots just believe it without evidnece

[pixie373]

I don't have any sympathy for a vigilante who mistakenly attacks the wrong person. They deserve to be punished too. That's why we use Courts and don't just let everyone dish out whatever punishment they see fit.

[pixie373]

Also, i would suggest the father of the assaulted 5year old girl, on the other thread, understandably acted "in the heat of the moment".
Reading something online and working out where someone lives, before going to attack them, definitely isn't"the heat of the moment". It's premeditated.

[Zeuhl]

Out of respect for the murder victim and his family can we please get his name right?

It was James Bulger

Not Jamie

On the main point - for sensible, reasonable people (in other words, excluding those like bazzer who replace thinking with slogans)

they recognise that the rule of Law is the most important thing; over-riding individual cases (no matter how tragic) and subjective knee jerk reactions.

therefore, the Law (having carefully considered the details of this case) needs this sort of identity protection programme to ensure that its sentencing decisions are adhered-to and not disrupted by idiots who think they know better based on a few paragraphs they have read in The Daily Mail or similar.

[Eve]

My apologies Zeuhl. Was that a media related "error", like what happened with Madeleine McCann?

[Zeuhl]

Eve - cheers

I wasn't having a personal dig - I may have done it myself once upon a time but it's something that once you know it - you don't get it wrong ever again.

I know it drives family members nuts that people (particularly broadcasters and newspapers) can't get his name right

and yet, whenever this case rears its head in the media, sooner or later someone refers to 'Jamie'

I wonder if it's some connection with his diminutive form in those cctv pictures with Jamie sounding like a 'baby name' and James a 'grown up' name

I'm sure his family regret very deeply that he never got the chance to be anything other than a 'baby'