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Remembrance Day: Minister Refuses To Wear Poppy Because It 'advocates War'
Should someone who doesn’t understand that the poppy, rather than advocating war, is a symbol of respect for the war dead, be conducting a service of remembrance?
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Steve 5 shame on you ! Marshall n his plan was for reconstruction - so we were excluded. You were probably thinking of Lend Lease.... completely different one was Aid and the other was a loan....
In fact Truman turned off the lendlease pipeline for Britain on... 16 August 1945, yes folks a day after the Japanese surrender.
ALSO oh come on babies - read history and learn ! the Japanese fought on the Allied side ( - the Good Guys) in 1914.
AS for the Japanese honouring the dead... The bif deal is that the Japanese Yakusuni Shrine where they honour the dead is for War Heroes - and so.... if as the Premier you go there, you are implicitly approving the Japanese conduct during the war . see http://
I dont mind discussion but can we have some informed discussion,
pleeeeeez ?
In fact Truman turned off the lendlease pipeline for Britain on... 16 August 1945, yes folks a day after the Japanese surrender.
ALSO oh come on babies - read history and learn ! the Japanese fought on the Allied side ( - the Good Guys) in 1914.
AS for the Japanese honouring the dead... The bif deal is that the Japanese Yakusuni Shrine where they honour the dead is for War Heroes - and so.... if as the Premier you go there, you are implicitly approving the Japanese conduct during the war . see http://
I dont mind discussion but can we have some informed discussion,
pleeeeeez ?
There most certainly is a problem.
The “Rev PJ” does indeed have a democratic right not to wear a poppy - as we all have. However she should not conduct Remembrance service if she refuses to wear one.
Her ignorance of the poppy’s history and meaning is understandable, as people in the UK are ignorant of many matters which have historical bases stemming from beyond the day before yesterday. But had she done some research - which might have been nice before she made her decision - she would have found that, far from “advocating war” it is actually a symbol of peace and reconciliation (which, according to her thinking, people who wear one are not inclined to favour). A glance at the Royal British Legion’s website provides this brief history of the poppy and the poppy appeal:. Also, as vulcan42 has pointed out, It will also serve to demonstrate that her ignorance cannot be explained by her American background:
“Poppies were first suggested as a symbol of Remembrance in 1918 and were adopted by the American Legion in 1920. In 1921 the British Legion adopted it and the first Poppy Appeal was born.”
The White Poppy, suggested by some, is not a suitable alternative. It has nothing to do with Remembrance. It symbolises the drive to reduce wars - an admirable sentiment shared by all sane people - but it does not recognise the dead of previous conflicts. In fact the Peace Pledge Union positively shuns such remembrance as a visit to its home page will demonstrate. Above a picture of the recently constructed Bomber Command memorial is the caption “Monument of Shame”. That organisation has some laudable aims but remembering the dead of this nation does not seem among them.
Like it or not the idea of Remembrance Day in the UK is to remember this nation's dead. The accepted symbol displayed on those occasions is the red poppy. The good citizens of Hadley should simply shun “Rev PJ’s” service and find somewhere else to spend their Remembrance Day.
The “Rev PJ” does indeed have a democratic right not to wear a poppy - as we all have. However she should not conduct Remembrance service if she refuses to wear one.
Her ignorance of the poppy’s history and meaning is understandable, as people in the UK are ignorant of many matters which have historical bases stemming from beyond the day before yesterday. But had she done some research - which might have been nice before she made her decision - she would have found that, far from “advocating war” it is actually a symbol of peace and reconciliation (which, according to her thinking, people who wear one are not inclined to favour). A glance at the Royal British Legion’s website provides this brief history of the poppy and the poppy appeal:. Also, as vulcan42 has pointed out, It will also serve to demonstrate that her ignorance cannot be explained by her American background:
“Poppies were first suggested as a symbol of Remembrance in 1918 and were adopted by the American Legion in 1920. In 1921 the British Legion adopted it and the first Poppy Appeal was born.”
The White Poppy, suggested by some, is not a suitable alternative. It has nothing to do with Remembrance. It symbolises the drive to reduce wars - an admirable sentiment shared by all sane people - but it does not recognise the dead of previous conflicts. In fact the Peace Pledge Union positively shuns such remembrance as a visit to its home page will demonstrate. Above a picture of the recently constructed Bomber Command memorial is the caption “Monument of Shame”. That organisation has some laudable aims but remembering the dead of this nation does not seem among them.
Like it or not the idea of Remembrance Day in the UK is to remember this nation's dead. The accepted symbol displayed on those occasions is the red poppy. The good citizens of Hadley should simply shun “Rev PJ’s” service and find somewhere else to spend their Remembrance Day.
@PeterPedant,
If we're ill informed then blame the media for not presenting all the facts.
I was aware of the Japanese having a war with Russia in 1912 but the rest of WWI spanned from Belgium to Saudi Arabia but no further, as far as I'd heard.
Are you of the opinion that WWII actually began in 1938 (Manchuria)?
If we're ill informed then blame the media for not presenting all the facts.
I was aware of the Japanese having a war with Russia in 1912 but the rest of WWI spanned from Belgium to Saudi Arabia but no further, as far as I'd heard.
Are you of the opinion that WWII actually began in 1938 (Manchuria)?
//Like it or not the idea of Remembrance Day in the UK is to remember this nation's dead. The accepted symbol displayed on those occasions is the red poppy. //
I don't like it - it's why I don't take part
While we just remember 'this nations dead' without remembering all the dead it will continue to be a nationalistic event
We will continue to have learnt nothing
A symbol of peace and reconciliation at an event where only one side participates?
Some reconciliation!
By the way TTT I think calling me a 'mental case' because I hold a point of view you don't agree with says more about you than me.
It also says a lot about your view of mental illness
You really should try and grow up - you sound more like a 14 year old in the playground with every post!
I don't like it - it's why I don't take part
While we just remember 'this nations dead' without remembering all the dead it will continue to be a nationalistic event
We will continue to have learnt nothing
A symbol of peace and reconciliation at an event where only one side participates?
Some reconciliation!
By the way TTT I think calling me a 'mental case' because I hold a point of view you don't agree with says more about you than me.
It also says a lot about your view of mental illness
You really should try and grow up - you sound more like a 14 year old in the playground with every post!
you obviously don't watch those that participate, they are from many nations, i am sure the Germans have their own type of remembrance over the years. Go to a war graves cemetery and see the names and ages of those killed, that they gave their lives for the freedoms we have today, that is the reason i go and visit them, and for my Australian friends who's brother gave his life in WW2, as far as i am concerned it's a little thing to do, and means so much to them, as they are too old to get here to pay their own respects
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“I don't like it - it's why I don't take part “
Quite so, Jake, and that’s your privilege (a privilege, incidentally, that you may not have been able to enjoy had the outcome of WW2 been different).
The Rev PJ, when conducting a Remembrance Day service, is not in a position to enjoy such a prerogative.
“A symbol of peace and reconciliation at an event where only one side participates? “
No. The red poppy is not a symbol of peace and reconciliation. It is a symbol of Remembrance. There is a considerable difference.
Of course there is a considerable degree of nationalism involved with such events. There are still a large number of people around for whom nationalism was a great salvation in 1939-45. And an even greater number (me included) who, whilst not present at that time, appreciate the sacrifices made by those people during an event which I think it is safe to say was not of this nation’s making.
The least I can do is wear a red poppy for a couple of weeks and it is a shame "Rev PJ" cannot bring herself to do likewise.
Quite so, Jake, and that’s your privilege (a privilege, incidentally, that you may not have been able to enjoy had the outcome of WW2 been different).
The Rev PJ, when conducting a Remembrance Day service, is not in a position to enjoy such a prerogative.
“A symbol of peace and reconciliation at an event where only one side participates? “
No. The red poppy is not a symbol of peace and reconciliation. It is a symbol of Remembrance. There is a considerable difference.
Of course there is a considerable degree of nationalism involved with such events. There are still a large number of people around for whom nationalism was a great salvation in 1939-45. And an even greater number (me included) who, whilst not present at that time, appreciate the sacrifices made by those people during an event which I think it is safe to say was not of this nation’s making.
The least I can do is wear a red poppy for a couple of weeks and it is a shame "Rev PJ" cannot bring herself to do likewise.
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She patently misunderstands what the poppy stands for. I shall be here for Remembrance Sunday and then fly to Antibes, to be present at the French memorial day there; they always hold it on November the 11th (and everything shuts). They won't be wearing poppies, but they remember and hope just the same, and it is that which she is defying.
TTT - "it does not advocate war anyway, it is merely remembeing those that died in them, ironically so that brainless mental cases like this can have freedom to make these choices."
Your use of the phrase 'brainless mental case' is uncalled for, and offensive.
This lady is obviously neither of those things.
She has taken a position which many feel is inappropriate, and in my view, is ill-informed, but that should not lay her open to gratuitous insults on here.
By all means disagree, as I and many do, but rudeness does not assist debate.
Your use of the phrase 'brainless mental case' is uncalled for, and offensive.
This lady is obviously neither of those things.
She has taken a position which many feel is inappropriate, and in my view, is ill-informed, but that should not lay her open to gratuitous insults on here.
By all means disagree, as I and many do, but rudeness does not assist debate.
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