Nelson Mandela Dies.

[ferlew]

RIP.

[bazwillrun]

""I'm not glad he's dead..." You're all heart, baz"

thanks jim :-;

I know how people on here like to twist and distort things on so I thought I'd make it clear, but it also doesnt bother me in any way, he means nothing to me i dont know him...how many other people across the globe died yesterday ?

I dont know any of them either, I'm not glad theyre dead, I also dont know any of them

[Kromovaracun]

"doesn't matter what I say kromo, you'll just poo poo it as innefectual as you have made your mind up."

If you give me good arguments that stand up to scrutiny, I will change my opinion. If you give me bad ones, I won't.

By 'good' - I mean examples or evidence that match to the claim you're making. By 'bad' I mean vague or nonspecific examples that don't have any causal link to the claim you're making. An example of this would be saying that "she walked into the Kremlin with the attitude of a conqueror."

[jno]

what was the Mensch one, ichkeria? Hers seemed pretty respectful

[andy-hughes]

I cannot agree with those who opine that Mandela 'did not affect their life ...'

Nelson Mandela was a huge presence in the political, social and cultural change in South Africa that has affected humanity's approach to oppression right around the world.

As far as I am concerned, if you take even a cursory look at his impact on the world in which he lived - if you live on this planet, you have been affected by Nelson Mandela - and no-one could ever say that about Margaret Thatcher.

[Kromovaracun]

"Kromo, you would not see it if hit hit you square in the face. Have a read (if none lefty liberal) material and you might see. But I bet you wont becasue you wont like what you find. "

Alright. Do you have any reccommendations? Or better, would you care to provide some examples of specific things that she actually did?

I'm a student of Soviet history, is all, and in no account or analysis of the fall of the USSR have I ever seen "Margaret Thatcher" listed as a decisive influence.

[jno]

she is said to have performed the somewhat peripheral service of persuading Reagan that Gorbachev was a more intelligent and flexible man than his successors. I've never bought the story that change in the Soviet Union (unlike SA) was brought about by western pressure. so that may not amount to much a role

[ToraToraTora]

So MrsT had no effect on the world, Andy! Right oh!
well I suppose this is a lefty love in should not expect much.

[Kromovaracun]

"So MrsT had no effect on the world, Andy! Right oh!
well I suppose this is a lefty love in should not expect much."

Nobody has said that and you well know it. We're just questioning the idea that Thatcher had much effect on the Soviet Union collapsing. That's it.

[anotheoldgit]

andy-hughes

/// Not really AOG - Mandela's front page picture was smaller, and the sub-editors less hysterical than when comparing someone whom the Mail thinks is equally deserving of an entire cover photograph, ///

I think you must have missed the Daily Mail front page before it was updated, couldn't get better than this.

http://www.pressdisplay.com/pressdisplay/viewer.aspx

"Death of a Colossus" on top of a full page photograph, couldn't get any more hysterical than that.

[LazyGun]

RIP. A man with global impact, and can be given huge credit from bringing SA in the embrace of nations, rather than being an international pariah.

[ToraToraTora]

"As far as I am concerned, if you take even a cursory look at his impact on the world in which he lived - if you live on this planet, you have been affected by Nelson Mandela - and no-one could ever say that about Margaret Thatcher. "

to us English speakers it seems pretty clear.

[Kromovaracun]

*sigh*

Andy is saying (and I'm not really sure I agree with him) that Nelson Mandela affected everyone in the world. He's also saying that Margaret Thatcher didn't.

"Not affecting everyone in the world" is not the same as "not affecting anyone in the world at all."

[ToraToraTora]

Mandela did not effect everyone in the world, how ridiculous. FW De Klerk was the hero anyway, if wasn't for him Mandela's disciples would still be whinning in their "Free Nelson Mandela" T shirts!

[jim360]

baz -- I think that's fair enough really. I was sad to hear the news but no more so than for any death. It was clearly coming and had been for a long time, so I was hardly shocked, and however great a man he was I can't really find myself strongly affected by the death of someone who was a) old and nearing his time, and b) a total stranger to me really.

[anotheoldgit]

andy-hughes

/// Nelson Mandela was a huge presence in the political, social and cultural change in South Africa that has affected humanity's approach to oppression right around the world. ///

Made a vast difference in the Middle East, I don't think.

/// As far as I am concerned, if you take even a cursory look at his impact on the world in which he lived - if you live on this planet, you have been affected by Nelson Mandela - and no-one could ever say that about Margaret Thatcher. ///

Two different things entirely, yes I agree he certainly had an impact on the World in which 'HE' lived.

But I fail to see how 'I' have been affected by Nelson Mandela, but I have very much so by Margaret Thatcher.

Please enlighten us Andy by telling us how you have been personally affected by Nelson Mandela?

[ichkeria]

jno the Louise Mensch tweet may well be a feisty response to some Thatcher-bashers so perhaps should be taken in that context. I probably shouldn't have mentioned it especially as I'm not even a twitterer :-)

[emmie]

sad new RIP,
however i read some of the posts and its a patent nonsense to suggest his influence was global, and what state is south Africa in now, is it the rainbow nation as promised, or another disparate country with another despot in charge. Apartheid was a vile thing, its demise was right, so that is a major step forward but it's been years since Mandela was in charge and now the country has not moved forward sufficiently, what now?

[tamborine]

Mandela transcended race, religion, torture & imprisonment in his quest for equality & peace in South Africa.

A role model for mankind. R.I.P. Mandela

[ToraToraTora]

Look at Rhodesia, that's where SA is heading.

[anotheoldgit]

Kromovaracun

/// I'm a student of Soviet history, is all, and in no account or analysis of the fall of the USSR have I ever seen "Margaret Thatcher" listed as a decisive influence. ///

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/9979977/Margaret-Thatcher-The-Iron-Ladys-pivotal-role-in-ending-the-Cold-War.html

http://www.economist.com/blogs/blighty/2013/04/margaret-thatcher

http://www.neweasterneurope.eu/node/751

Any more proof needed? There is plenty out there.