Motoring12 mins ago
Hillsborough...just When You Thought It Couldn't Get Any Worse !
http://
If this is true, then the upcoming Inquests are going to be even more interesting.
If this is true, then the upcoming Inquests are going to be even more interesting.
Answers
No-one is saying that everyone had a ticket and no-one is saying that every PC or WPC was negligent or altered their original statements. It was a disaster and there is evidence of a systematic cover-up involving SOME of those in authority.
12:48 Sun 12th Jan 2014
So Sqad, by your reasoning the police are free to literally be a law unto themselves. They can fabricate evidence, change statements, spy on innocent people, protect guilty officers, and we should just let them get on with it, because our son/brother/dad/sister/daughter/mother is dead and we can't bring them back. Ludicrous!
It is worth pointing out that private eye asked for files relating to Special Branch activities. As these guys work hand in glove with MI5 it may simply be that any FOI inquiries related to them are routinely declined on these grounds.
I wouldn't necesarilly read anything into the refusal
If they're still refusing in 5 years tme when the 30 year rule is up I'll read something into it then
I wouldn't necesarilly read anything into the refusal
If they're still refusing in 5 years tme when the 30 year rule is up I'll read something into it then
Chilldoubt, I'm confused. In your 16:19 post you say of Mikey, "unlike you though, I recognise the need for justice in regards to both disasters". As far as I can see Mikey hasn't commented on Heysel! Or do you mean on another thread? I can see where you're coming from, but as far as I know, there has been no suspicious goings on in the Belgian enquiry. I feel if you have any relevant information, it might be better to open a new thread.
Sorry for being late in replying Tora , I've just got in after a night out with friends. I've just read your link. I would urge you to contact John Ward and together, contact, as advised bySipowicz, Attorney General Dominic Grieve, as soon as possible, as you have both obviously got some very important undisclosed evidence that needs to be presented to the forthcoming inquest! I can see that this means a lot to you , so speed is of the esscence. Don't delay!
Chilldoubt, I'm confused. In your 16:19 post you say of Mikey, "unlike you though, I recognise the need for justice in regards to both disasters". As far as I can see Mikey hasn't commented on Heysel!
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And there you go! The penny has dropped! Mikey, like so many of his brethren sees only Hillsborough as a disaster, Heysel is just a minor inconvenience that pales into insignificance in comparison to Hillsborough.
At Hillsborough, blame can be apportioned to only one faction: The Police.
Heysel was a combination, well, in the eyes of most it was. Inept Policing in tandem with thuggish, hooligan behaviour.
Hillsborough was solely down to the Police, no one else.
Strange though that so many without tickets ended up in the Leppings Lane End.
How was that I wonder? It would appear that on that day not one single Liverpool supporter did anything of any blame or culpability whatsoever, yet every member of South Yorkshire Police was complicit, end of.
In reality, I suspect that not every Police Officer on duty that day ought to be pilloried, nor in the same breath should every Liverpool supporter be painted as a saint, as has been portrayed far too often.
In reality, IMHO a lot of Liverpool fans cannot stomach the fact that their fellow fans were crushed to death by Liverpool supporters who were hell bent on getting into Leppings Lane at all costs.
That many didn't have tickets seems to have fallen by the by:
http://
From the link:
2.12.12 At approximately 4.30pm Mr Green reported on information obtained from Mr Mackrell, who had spoken to 'the police officer in charge'. Mr Green stated that 'at ten to three there was a surge of fans at the Leppings Lane end of the ground ... the surge composed of about 500 Liverpool fans and the police say that a gate was forced and that led to a crush in the terracing area - well under capacity I'm told, there was still plenty of room inside that area'.[3]
2.12.13 Later in the bulletin it was stated that the gates had been 'broken down' following the arrival of 'large numbers of ticketless fans'.
2.12.14 By early evening the allegations had consolidated. BBC Radio 4 reported that it was 'clear' that many fans had no tickets and had entered through an exit gate: 'One report says the gate was kicked down another that it was opened by ground staff'.[4]
2.12.15 Later in the evening, however, the SYP Chief Constable, Peter Wright, stated that the gate had been opened on the instruction of a police officer to relieve the crush outside the stadium caused by the late arrival of thousands of Liverpool fans, many without tickets.[5]
The immediate aftermath
2.12.16 The following morning's newspapers presented contrasting accounts. The theme of an aggressive, late-arriving crowd determined to gain entry persisted, with the Sunday Mirror, for example, reporting that between three and four thousand 'Liverpool fans pushed seemingly uncontrolled into Hillsborough'.[6]
2.12.17 The Observer attributed the three to four thousand estimate to CC Wright, stating that their 'late arrival' had 'threatened danger to life'.[7] It also noted Mr Mackrell's comment that the disaster had been caused by a 'surge' as Liverpool fans arrived late.
2.12.18 On Monday 17 April while press coverage remained mixed, the assumed culpability of Liverpool fans was central to many reports. The Sheffield Star described a 'crazed surge' of Liverpool fans. It claimed that as a consequence 'up to 40 people died in the tunnel, the rest trampled underfoot'. Some fans were the 'worse for drink, others without tickets' had 'raced to the stadium'.[8]
2.12.19 The Yorkshire Post reported that 'thousands of latecomers tried to force their way into the ground' having set off a 'fatal charge'.[9] The Manchester Evening News alleged that fans, 'foolishly late getting to the game and furious at the prospect of missing the start, kicked and
------------------------
And there you go! The penny has dropped! Mikey, like so many of his brethren sees only Hillsborough as a disaster, Heysel is just a minor inconvenience that pales into insignificance in comparison to Hillsborough.
At Hillsborough, blame can be apportioned to only one faction: The Police.
Heysel was a combination, well, in the eyes of most it was. Inept Policing in tandem with thuggish, hooligan behaviour.
Hillsborough was solely down to the Police, no one else.
Strange though that so many without tickets ended up in the Leppings Lane End.
How was that I wonder? It would appear that on that day not one single Liverpool supporter did anything of any blame or culpability whatsoever, yet every member of South Yorkshire Police was complicit, end of.
In reality, I suspect that not every Police Officer on duty that day ought to be pilloried, nor in the same breath should every Liverpool supporter be painted as a saint, as has been portrayed far too often.
In reality, IMHO a lot of Liverpool fans cannot stomach the fact that their fellow fans were crushed to death by Liverpool supporters who were hell bent on getting into Leppings Lane at all costs.
That many didn't have tickets seems to have fallen by the by:
http://
From the link:
2.12.12 At approximately 4.30pm Mr Green reported on information obtained from Mr Mackrell, who had spoken to 'the police officer in charge'. Mr Green stated that 'at ten to three there was a surge of fans at the Leppings Lane end of the ground ... the surge composed of about 500 Liverpool fans and the police say that a gate was forced and that led to a crush in the terracing area - well under capacity I'm told, there was still plenty of room inside that area'.[3]
2.12.13 Later in the bulletin it was stated that the gates had been 'broken down' following the arrival of 'large numbers of ticketless fans'.
2.12.14 By early evening the allegations had consolidated. BBC Radio 4 reported that it was 'clear' that many fans had no tickets and had entered through an exit gate: 'One report says the gate was kicked down another that it was opened by ground staff'.[4]
2.12.15 Later in the evening, however, the SYP Chief Constable, Peter Wright, stated that the gate had been opened on the instruction of a police officer to relieve the crush outside the stadium caused by the late arrival of thousands of Liverpool fans, many without tickets.[5]
The immediate aftermath
2.12.16 The following morning's newspapers presented contrasting accounts. The theme of an aggressive, late-arriving crowd determined to gain entry persisted, with the Sunday Mirror, for example, reporting that between three and four thousand 'Liverpool fans pushed seemingly uncontrolled into Hillsborough'.[6]
2.12.17 The Observer attributed the three to four thousand estimate to CC Wright, stating that their 'late arrival' had 'threatened danger to life'.[7] It also noted Mr Mackrell's comment that the disaster had been caused by a 'surge' as Liverpool fans arrived late.
2.12.18 On Monday 17 April while press coverage remained mixed, the assumed culpability of Liverpool fans was central to many reports. The Sheffield Star described a 'crazed surge' of Liverpool fans. It claimed that as a consequence 'up to 40 people died in the tunnel, the rest trampled underfoot'. Some fans were the 'worse for drink, others without tickets' had 'raced to the stadium'.[8]
2.12.19 The Yorkshire Post reported that 'thousands of latecomers tried to force their way into the ground' having set off a 'fatal charge'.[9] The Manchester Evening News alleged that fans, 'foolishly late getting to the game and furious at the prospect of missing the start, kicked and
Part 2:
kicked and hammered on the steel [exit] gates'.[10]
2.12.20 Thus gates were opened and the 'Anfield Army charged onto the terrace behind the goal, many without tickets'. Late arrival, forced entry, ticketless fans, drunkenness and a 'charge' into the stadium were allegations common to most national and regional newspapers.
2.12.21 One of the earliest comment articles was written by the Evening Standard's Peter McKay who concluded that the 'catastrophe was caused first and foremost by violent enthusiasm for soccer, in this case the tribal passions of Liverpool supporters' who 'literally killed themselves and others to be at the game'.[11]
Not everybody that day turned a blind eye to the Liverpool fans actions. It's just that many of them can't stomach what their 'fans' did that day, it would appear.
kicked and hammered on the steel [exit] gates'.[10]
2.12.20 Thus gates were opened and the 'Anfield Army charged onto the terrace behind the goal, many without tickets'. Late arrival, forced entry, ticketless fans, drunkenness and a 'charge' into the stadium were allegations common to most national and regional newspapers.
2.12.21 One of the earliest comment articles was written by the Evening Standard's Peter McKay who concluded that the 'catastrophe was caused first and foremost by violent enthusiasm for soccer, in this case the tribal passions of Liverpool supporters' who 'literally killed themselves and others to be at the game'.[11]
Not everybody that day turned a blind eye to the Liverpool fans actions. It's just that many of them can't stomach what their 'fans' did that day, it would appear.
2.12.21 One of the earliest comment articles was written by the Evening Standard's Peter McKay who concluded that the 'catastrophe was caused first and foremost by violent enthusiasm for soccer, in this case the tribal passions of Liverpool supporters' who 'literally killed themselves and others to be at the game'.[11]
2.12.22 As the focus on fans' behaviour consolidated, Jacques Georges, the UEFA President, stated:
One can talk of people's frenzy to enter the stadium come what may, whatever the risk to the lives of others ... One had the impression that they were beasts waiting to charge into the arena.[12]
2.12.23 An alternative view was put forward by Simon Barnes, writing in The Times. His comment article, 'Why the dead are the victims of contempt', was strongly critical of the state of football. 'Why make the football grounds pleasant? Cram them in, take as much money as you dare to charge, that's the way. Spend a million quid on a player, spend the legal minimum on ground safety and spend next to nothing on comfort'.[13]
2.12.24 On Tuesday 18 April, writing in the Liverpool Daily Post, John Williams noted that 'the gatecrashers wreaked their fatal havoc', their 'uncontrolled fanaticism and mass hysteria ... literally squeezed the life out of men, women and children'.[14] It was 'yobbism at its most base' as 'Scouse killed Scouse for no better reason than 22 men were kicking a ball'.
2.12.22 As the focus on fans' behaviour consolidated, Jacques Georges, the UEFA President, stated:
One can talk of people's frenzy to enter the stadium come what may, whatever the risk to the lives of others ... One had the impression that they were beasts waiting to charge into the arena.[12]
2.12.23 An alternative view was put forward by Simon Barnes, writing in The Times. His comment article, 'Why the dead are the victims of contempt', was strongly critical of the state of football. 'Why make the football grounds pleasant? Cram them in, take as much money as you dare to charge, that's the way. Spend a million quid on a player, spend the legal minimum on ground safety and spend next to nothing on comfort'.[13]
2.12.24 On Tuesday 18 April, writing in the Liverpool Daily Post, John Williams noted that 'the gatecrashers wreaked their fatal havoc', their 'uncontrolled fanaticism and mass hysteria ... literally squeezed the life out of men, women and children'.[14] It was 'yobbism at its most base' as 'Scouse killed Scouse for no better reason than 22 men were kicking a ball'.
Chilldoubt, Have you read all of your link, or only the part you choose to believe? Read on.....(Your link remember)
http://
I still fail to see how you are linking Mikey with Heysel!
http://
I still fail to see how you are linking Mikey with Heysel!
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