Vermin

[ChillDoubt]

If only there were some sort of anti-British law whereby we could have these two vile creatures removed from these islands.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-26579717

Hope springs eternal.......

[emmie]

what about those who have gone off to fight in countries they may never have visited, lived in, but their families were born in like Syria, to fight for the rebels, whoever they are, and what if they come back to Britain and start up a campaign of violence because of perceived western interference, and i am not just referring to Syria, because like these two converts, and the killers of Lee Rigby, they cite the reasons for their thinking, violence is western interference in Muslim countries, so should we have to welcome them back with open arms, happy in the knowledge that they have likely had training in terror tactics, arms training, how can they go back to leading normal lives..

[LazyGun]

Well we live by our values, Chill - of tolerance and decency first and foremost. We pride ourselves on that, don't we? So what these people did was vile and shocking, but just because some religious fundamentalists are intolerant of our values should not mean that we alter our values to match theirs, does it?

[emmie]

we should sit up and take notice, because there are more like these two out there, they are not just a couple of religious zealots,
as to the law of the land, whilst we are being bound by it, why was this woman allowed at any point to wear a veil in court, this is us being stupidly tolerant. The law should not treat people differently because of religious convictions, nor should anywhere, be it Christian, or Muslim

[ChillDoubt]

So what these people did was vile and shocking, but just because some religious fundamentalists are intolerant of our values should not mean that we alter our values to match theirs, does it?
-------------------
But such heinous views and actions should NOT be tolerated in any way, shape or form. As I've said, Barnes offered a reward for anyone who killed a British soldier in a Muslim land. Let him be the first to follow the courage of his convictions. That sounds VERY fair to me, granting him his wishes, does it not?

[LazyGun]

The point is that wearing a veil is currently legal under british law. As to tolerance - I personally am not happy that people prefer to wear veils, either through choice or through conditioning, but the whole point about a secular society is that we are equally tolerant of all religions, and the practices of those religions, up to a point. That point at which we legislate is when it severely impacts upon society as a whole, or where the practice is unacceptable to the majority of the population.

That sense of tolerance, of decency, of fair play is what is supposed to be the very DNA, the essence, of Britishness. We should not abandon it simply because some people from other religions are intolerant of our values.

I have still to hear from you though exactly who it is on here that you think is an apologist or sympathiser for terrorists though, Emmie.

[emmie]

after he serves his time, they are cowards with no balls, he won't go and fight, he might get killed, and we wouldn't want that would we,

[emmie]

she was allowed to wear it in the court, why

[LazyGun]

"But such heinous views and actions should NOT be tolerated in any way, shape or form. As"

They have not been tolerated though, have they? They have been punished, in a court of law. And you seem to wish for our society to descend to their level of vileness, their level of barbarity, simply to satisfy your desire for revenge.

[ChillDoubt]

And you seem to wish for our society to descend to their level of vileness, their level of barbarity, simply to satisfy your desire for revenge.
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Really? Have I mentioned beheadings? Called for them to be stoned? Offered rewards for anyone visiting harm on them?
I've expressed a wish that for such acts, persons should have their citizenship of these Isles somehow rescinded.
THAT IS ALL.
I've not called for serious retribution, wished ill on them from other inmates whilst inside, just that they no longer are allowed the safety, sanctuary and benefits of being a British citizen. Or have you any other wild claims about me?

[LazyGun]

I am not making any wild claims at all, Chill. I am asking how this deportation will work, either in law or in reality. They have been punished, in law.

You ask us to respond to their vileness, their intolerance with greater intolerance of our own.

Nowhere have I accused you of supporting notions of beheadings or worse - but for us, the descent into barbarism starts with just one step, and calling for punishments that are not legal nor practicable, as you are doing, would be one of those steps.

[Sipowicz]

Hotel California?

[emmie]

what happens when they come out of prison, how are they going to feel, and respond to having a criminal record, will the fact that his views which seem unlikely to change make more trouble for Britain -

[jim360]

Yeah that'd work...

Why must we be so keen to sacrifice our values? These people hate our guts and would see us dead , treated horrifically, subject to torture and to no human rights at all. The absolute worst thing we can do to respond to that is to agree with them that in principle there are some people who deserve nothing other than pain and death.

And see, too, how this sort of debate has led to us turning on each other; "You don't want to see the terrorists treated this way, you must support them", "You want to treat these people like vermin, that's how they think"! This, surely, is the true damage that terrorism has wreaked on this country, that we fight amongst ourselves.

[emmie]

these are traitors in our midst, for all the values we hold dear, that has cost us dear not least in two world wars. So what should we keep on doing, bending over backwards, for British born or non British born Muslims, because their religion, culture permits the wearing of the burkha, the niqab, and veil, that FGM is still practised in Britain, that halal meats are the norm, certainly in the capital, irrespective of some people's stance that it is quicker and a better method of killing the animals. That we now have Islamic schools, i know there are Jewish Schools and Catholic schools, we should have taken out religion from all our schools, academies, that should be the preserve of the church, mosque, synagogue. I don't understand that we have come in for bombs, killings on our streets, in the name of Islam, nor that some on AB have said we should stop interfering in their countries, and that is why thesse atrocities have happened, there is the nub, even if we don't, and we shouldn't, we will still have these people, these traitors in our midst. And we will get more atrocities like 7/7, because we have bent over backwards so far, until we are licking our own backside.

[askyourgran]

Good one em. This sort of behaviour is becoming more frequent now and it bothers me that the authorities haven't got some laws and resolutions to stop it from happening. We have never had such confrontational behaviour on our streets until the mass influx of the Muslim immigrants. And you can,t say it's because we invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. Our soldiers have fought all over the world but we have never had Koreans, South Africans, Nigerians etc causing havoc on our streets and defying the law. Some definate means of law and order must be put in place to stop it happening, before it becomes the 'wild west'.

[ChillDoubt]

Unfortunately emmie I've already given Best Answer.
I'm sure naomi would be more than willing to share it in spirit.

[jim360]

With respect to the best answer honour, but Naomi is utterly wrong. If the terrorists laugh, then it is not at our tolerance, but at how easily they can divide us. There is no greater victory they can enjoy.

[ChillDoubt]

My thread, my accolade to give.

jim, have you ever thought about a career in politics?
You sound just like one.

[emmie]

i don't think that we are all that divided, by and large we agree with law and order, because without it we have anarchy.