Fgm

[emmie]

its truly appalling, and these are the ones they know about, and only in the capital, so how many more across the country. how on earth can a parent allow this to happen to their child.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-26639542

[emmie]

actually i do think that, that they may not see it as cruelty as such, but it is
i remember reading one woman's account, it was the most harrowing thing i have ever read, her mother said that she had it done, so why shouldn't her child, not sure how you get past that thinking

[DaisyNonna]

LG, Yes. It is cruelty, what is not deliberate about it?

[mushroom25]

LG, in cultures that practice FGM, girls who remain uncut are considered ineligible to marry. thus the girls themselves are disadvantaged, as are their family who are deprived of a valuable dowry. Opposing such culture would be difficult - and in comparative terms, very costly.

how would you educate against a loss of disposable income?

[emmie]

so what are you suggesting, that they do nothing, because it would be difficult to counter? surely the girl is the prime concern, her health and wellbeing, if she has it done then ends up with life long problems, she is hardly going to be a good wife as such, as any kind of sexual experience, and that would include giving birth is going to be excruciating.

[Old_Geezer]

Is financial improvement a reason for continuing to do the wrong thing ? Stealing increases your disposable income, but most disagree with it because it is seen to be wrong. Change the morality and the gain/loss should become less of an issue.

[237SJ]

What surprises me about this is that people only seem to be concerned since this practice came to the UK. I knew about fgm at least 25 years ago. It is common in the Middle East, down through East Africa and parts of West Africa as well. If you are concerned about the numbers of girls that this is happening to in the UK, then you can multiply that a thousand fold as far as what`s happening in other parts of the world. Educating the practice out needs to take place in those parts of the world and then that will filter down to the UK.

[emmie]

i did know of it, and if you read the link, it says how many world wide.

[Old_Geezer]

One has limited control over areas outside of one's own national boundaries, so the emphasis would be to get one's own house in order whilst setting a good example and encouraging elsewhere to do likewise

[237SJ]

I don`t think that will happen via the UK OG. The vast majority of fgm takes place abroad and the people who perform it are the generation who have probably grown up abroad so changing their mindset would be an uphill struggle. I`m not sure that our UK values have that much influence in Africa.

[emmie]

well they should and having read some articles recently on other European countries that are trying to get it stamped out, and imposing fines and jail time, we should follow suit. I know it would be difficult, but it doesn't mean we should try, education is the key as well

[emmie]

sorry that should say " that we shouldn't try"

[pixie373]

Even if girls are taken abroad to have it done, can't the parents still be charged in the UK?

[atalanta]

In Sweden all airports have matrons who are authorised to check girls going out of the country and coming back, and if a matron sees mutilation, she reports it and parents are prosecuted.
UK needs the same, never mind "culture".
Surely "cultural sensitivity" on such an issue is only another expression for "cowardice".

[emmie]

i honestly don't know, but suspect that it would have to be the case the girl ends up in doctors, hospital, she may not realise or want the parents to get into trouble.

[237SJ]

I doubt it. What is the age limit for ear piercing in the UK - 16? And how many little Indian babies of 5 or 6 months do you see with pierced ears? Quite a lot. I suspect the laws are easy to get around.

[emmie]

atalanta i read that a little while back, does it work?

[pixie373]

There's no age limit, 237. That's legal.

[emmie]

whilst FGM is not.

[LazyGun]

I seriously doubt that the mothers and those that arrange for this practice to happen view it as intentional cruelty. They are not motivated out of personal dislike or animus but out of a cultural imperative. The only way you are going to change that cultural imperative is by education, as per the link I offered. That, and better education here, of the communities in which it is most common.

The only way cultural practices can be challenged - whether it is because families are scared their daughters will be ineligible to be married if uncut, or because in other instances extrusion of the genitalia is thought unsightly, or because of some weird belief that women should not enjoy sex so much or because their religion or priest ordain that it happens - the only way this ever gets changed is to educate the culture and get the culture to change, and as a consequence of that education introduce and police legislation.

Other measures, in addition to the education of communities and kids here would be greater involvement of Social Services - so where FGM is suspected, SS can intervene if necessary - I am not quite sure how involved they get at present.

As to this idea of Sweden and Matrons inspecting girls at airports - cannot find any reference to that -do you have a link?

[237SJ]

There is no link re: "matrons" inspecting girls at airports because that doesn`t happen.