News19 mins ago
Westboro Baptist Church
Interesting article from Louis Theroux on the "Rev" Phelps of the WBC ::
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I had forgotten that he did two BBC documentaries about this hateful man.
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I had forgotten that he did two BBC documentaries about this hateful man.
Answers
Very well written - as you would expect, especially the use of phrase like 'biblical smackdown' - just the right mix of humour and scathing sarcasm. It does seem that most would agree with Louis Theroux, that 'Rev' Phelps was a stratospheri
15:04 Tue 25th Mar 2014
Very well written - as you would expect, especially the use of phrase like 'biblical smackdown' - just the right mix of humour and scathing sarcasm.
It does seem that most would agree with Louis Theroux, that 'Rev' Phelps was a stratospherically unpleasant individual with the twin gifts of hatred, and the ability to infect his family with that hatred.
What a shame there is no God for him to answer to for his dreadful life - just a void in which he has no awareness that his power on earth is over, and he is gone, like the rest of us will be - no different after all.
It does seem that most would agree with Louis Theroux, that 'Rev' Phelps was a stratospherically unpleasant individual with the twin gifts of hatred, and the ability to infect his family with that hatred.
What a shame there is no God for him to answer to for his dreadful life - just a void in which he has no awareness that his power on earth is over, and he is gone, like the rest of us will be - no different after all.
What I find difficult to get my brain around with this kind of bigotry is how so many people can get swept up in it. Phelps himself was clearly a person with a serious personality disorder, and was also probably very charismatic but how did the majority of educated people that comprise the body of the Church not see that ? Being American and religious can't account for all of it.
One of the Church's favourite activities was turning up at funerals and loudly barracking the mourners. I have been to many funerals in my life and not always liked the person being buried but it would be just too awful to use the occasion to heap hate on the proceedings. I am seriously baffled about people like Phelps.
Theroux has done many documentaries about weird people and almost all of them have been in America, but the two he did about the WBC stuck out. I am not sure how he kept his temper.
One of the Church's favourite activities was turning up at funerals and loudly barracking the mourners. I have been to many funerals in my life and not always liked the person being buried but it would be just too awful to use the occasion to heap hate on the proceedings. I am seriously baffled about people like Phelps.
Theroux has done many documentaries about weird people and almost all of them have been in America, but the two he did about the WBC stuck out. I am not sure how he kept his temper.
mikey - never underestimate the need for people to belong.
A sense of tribal identity - even one as deeply unpleasant as this one - will always attract a minority of needy deluded people. You only have to look at the Manson 'Family' to see how these things work.
Some people are so desparate for direction and a purpose in life, however repellant that purpose may be perceived by normal people, that they will fall for this kind ot nonsense. For those bred into it, this simply takes the place of normality.
Fingers crossed, now he is gone, his dreadful enclave may crumble - we can live in hope.
A sense of tribal identity - even one as deeply unpleasant as this one - will always attract a minority of needy deluded people. You only have to look at the Manson 'Family' to see how these things work.
Some people are so desparate for direction and a purpose in life, however repellant that purpose may be perceived by normal people, that they will fall for this kind ot nonsense. For those bred into it, this simply takes the place of normality.
Fingers crossed, now he is gone, his dreadful enclave may crumble - we can live in hope.
But the WCH isn't the only organization in the US that exists along similar lines. The KKK for instance have many more Members and has been around since the mid-1800's. The Manson family were heavily into serious drug taking, so that might account for much of their problems.
What is it about some Americans that they can put their intellects on hold, and believe in this nonsense ?
What is it about some Americans that they can put their intellects on hold, and believe in this nonsense ?
mikey - I don't think it's that only Americans are prone to weird behaviour, it's just the coincidence of one of te major world populations sharing a language, so it's easy for us to pick up on odd behaviour. That said, only odd behaviour catches our interest, which can make it look as though the entire US is full of oddballs, which of course is not the case.
I imagine if we shared a language with North Korea, their weirdness, from the leader downwards, would see our collective jaws hitting collective pavements!
I imagine if we shared a language with North Korea, their weirdness, from the leader downwards, would see our collective jaws hitting collective pavements!
Emotional response usually trumps intellectual understanding, for pretty much everyone really.
And I do not think we should be singling out the Americans, a continent with over 300 million people, and saying that they are uniquely prone to this kind of behaviour.
As for the KKK, at their height they had a very large membership, thats true, but the sensibilities and understandings of the time were very much different from today - thats not to excuse their worst excesses, nor their racial supremacist agenda, but to explain it.
Nowadays, there membership is barely into 4 figures, so not much better supported than the BNP over here, or Golden Dawn in Greece.
The appeal of such organisations rests with offering simple,direct and unequivocal solutions to complex multifactorial problems -and on the healthy fear and paranoia of many humans who might feel livelihoods or ways of life are under threat.
And I do not think we should be singling out the Americans, a continent with over 300 million people, and saying that they are uniquely prone to this kind of behaviour.
As for the KKK, at their height they had a very large membership, thats true, but the sensibilities and understandings of the time were very much different from today - thats not to excuse their worst excesses, nor their racial supremacist agenda, but to explain it.
Nowadays, there membership is barely into 4 figures, so not much better supported than the BNP over here, or Golden Dawn in Greece.
The appeal of such organisations rests with offering simple,direct and unequivocal solutions to complex multifactorial problems -and on the healthy fear and paranoia of many humans who might feel livelihoods or ways of life are under threat.
"how did the majority of educated people that comprise the body of the Church not see that? "
Many of them are related to him.
I actually found this article quite upsetting. The WBC is a fringe group, and nobody expects it to have much chance of growing. And for those that do join - well, they're adults. They can think what they want, even if it's a load of balls.
But the kind of emotional abuse they seem to inflict on every child that has the misfortune to be born into their church is extremely distressing. Shirley Phelps-Roper and her siblings are wantonly robbing children of life opportunities - they are kicking away their ability to thrive and develop as human beings.
As the numerous interviews with ex-members have shown, this has been extremely destructive consequences for people who start questioning the church - the Phelpses use their position as parents, guardians and siblings to put people who love them through emotional torture if they don't do what they're told.
Many of them are related to him.
I actually found this article quite upsetting. The WBC is a fringe group, and nobody expects it to have much chance of growing. And for those that do join - well, they're adults. They can think what they want, even if it's a load of balls.
But the kind of emotional abuse they seem to inflict on every child that has the misfortune to be born into their church is extremely distressing. Shirley Phelps-Roper and her siblings are wantonly robbing children of life opportunities - they are kicking away their ability to thrive and develop as human beings.
As the numerous interviews with ex-members have shown, this has been extremely destructive consequences for people who start questioning the church - the Phelpses use their position as parents, guardians and siblings to put people who love them through emotional torture if they don't do what they're told.
This is worth a read, from Nate Phelps, Fred Phelps estranged son. Chronicles some of the abuse some of the children received at the hands of parents and others, but its headline message is that we should be using Fred Phelps as a reminder that the vast majority of people are good.
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As people have said, the 'church' was basically his offspring, and their offspring, so he was able to brainwash his bizarre beliefs and hatred into them from birth. They've never really known normality.
I suspect that with the malevolent spider no longer sitting in the middle of the web, the whole thing will just fade away.
I suspect that with the malevolent spider no longer sitting in the middle of the web, the whole thing will just fade away.
The Theroux documentaries were OK, the best one was the one they did with Keith Allen (a couple of years before if memory serves), where he caught out the matriarch, who had given birth out of wedlock.
He tore her to pieces in true WBC style and she just had to stand there and take it like the hypocrite she is.
I'll see if I can find it.
He tore her to pieces in true WBC style and she just had to stand there and take it like the hypocrite she is.
I'll see if I can find it.
Interesting comments from everybody. My emphasis on the American aspect of this case seems entirely valid to me. All the worlds new weirdo religions have originated in America, and it would seem that even one of oldest, Christianity is subject to the appalling bigotry that the WBC has demonstrated.
Extreme religious attitudes are on the increase in this country as well but I cannot see that a Christian Church over here would send its congregation to picket and demonstrate at funerals as the WBC has done. This action is genuinely bewildering to us Brits. But in a country that invented a religion out of the crazed writings of a science fiction writer, and a low quality one at that, perhaps we shouldn't be so surprised.
Its all down to education.
Extreme religious attitudes are on the increase in this country as well but I cannot see that a Christian Church over here would send its congregation to picket and demonstrate at funerals as the WBC has done. This action is genuinely bewildering to us Brits. But in a country that invented a religion out of the crazed writings of a science fiction writer, and a low quality one at that, perhaps we shouldn't be so surprised.
Its all down to education.
Some involve more brain washing than others.
My mother is a born again Christian. She is devout. The members of her church are lovely people. Although she believes that homosexuality is wrong in the eyes of the Lord, she also believes that she is not in a position to judge.
They are on the right side of loony....
My mother is a born again Christian. She is devout. The members of her church are lovely people. Although she believes that homosexuality is wrong in the eyes of the Lord, she also believes that she is not in a position to judge.
They are on the right side of loony....
