Number Of Muslims In Prison Doubles In Decade To 12,000

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/number-of-muslims-in-prison-doubles-in-decade-to-12000-9222237.html

It would seem that everyone and everything is to blame apart from the criminals themselves.

/// The shadow Justice Secretary, Sadiq Khan, said the Government’s “complacency [on the issue] is breath-taking”. ///

/// Muzammil Quraishi, a senior lecturer in criminology and criminal justice at Salford University, said: “Young Muslim men are under the official gaze from their school days onwards ///

/// Amal Imad, of the charity Muslim Aid, suggested that poor educational performance, problems finding fulfilling jobs and family breakdown were factors in the increasing numbers of Muslims behind bars. ///

/// Mizanur Rahman, a spokesman for the organisation Muslim Prisoners, blamed the spike on Islamophobia and racism among police officers. ///

[EDDIE51]

The high % of muslims in prison has been a problem for years. The cash for food per prisoner is less than £2 per prisoner per day for all 3 meals .Prisons have to provide 2 menus for that price one for Muslims and one for the rest. No such provision exists for any other religious group they just have to put up with what is offered.

[jim360]

I was mainly trying to make the point that both sides of the argument in this thread are using stats in a dubious manner... as far as I can tell there is a raw discrepancy in the two rates of rising, but as noted at least one reason is the inevitable lag between arriving in this country and offending -- rather like heavy rainfall doesn't automatically lead to flooding, so you have to start considering rainfall a few hours or so before the river level rises.

So the comparison I was making was an attempt to cast doubt on both Gromit's claim that the rise is (almost) exactly in accord with the rise in population, and Naomi's headline figure of 43% in a single prison. The actual picture, which of course I don't have access to, is going to be far more complicated, on both sides.

[Zacs-Master]

Of course it is.

[jim360]

Thanks for the suggestion AOG, though I'd be surprised if they would listen anyway. Most politicians -- most people, in fact -- tend to use statistics rather poorly, and from what I've seen so far they aren't all that keen on this being pointed out.

[naomi24]

Jim, I didn’t mention 43%. I said “The figures are higher than that in some areas. 27% in London…. and 33% in some prisons”.

There does seem to be a problem – I don’t think anyone, no matter how hard they try, can deny that.

[Zacs-Master]

They do use statistics poorly Jim:
//The important figures are 14% total population of Muslim prisoners, or a little under 12,000, which is a little more than twice the population a decade ago. In the same time the overall Muslim population has increased by about 70%, I think, so there is some discrepancy between the two rates of increase. //

Which I pointed out.

[Zacs-Master]

Naomi, do you disagree with Grasscarp's point then?

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

/// Coz he is trying to say muslims are being discriminated against, so he will get more muslim votes. ///

To be fair Sadiq Khan did not say that, but Muzammil Quraishi and Mizanur Rahman did.

[jim360]

I thought you might be quoting from the article, which mentioned that one prison had 43% Muslim population, and had just hit 33% by mistake. Even if you were quoting another source it doesn't change my overall point much, though, that the number of Muslims in any one prison will vary wildly and doesn't necessarily mean much by itself.

[naomi24]

Zacs, I neither agree nor disagree. I'm sure some people do pretend to be Muslim in order to get better food, but I really can't imagine it being done and accepted by the prison authorities in such numbers.

[Gromit]

Zacs

The Independent's report says the muslim prison population has doubled in numbers in 10 years.

I offered that the muslim population of the UK has nearly doubled in 10 years (census to census), to explain why I was neither shocked by the figures or that I thought that was much of a problem.

If the muslim population of the UK had halved in 10 years and the number of inmates in cells had risen, then I would be surprised and think there was a problem

[naomi24]

Jim, the highest figure doesn't detract from the fact that other prisons also hold a higher proportion of Muslims than non-Muslims.

[Zacs-Master]

Another interesting angle:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9298578/Prisoners-under-pressure-to-convert-to-Muslim-gang.html

[jim360]

Yes, I'm sure, Naomi, but then if the overall average is 14% then all those prisons that have a high proportion of Muslims must surely be counterbalanced by prisons with a very low proportion of Muslims. These variations might reflect the local population, or some administrative decision to keep Muslim prisoners together, or some other factor I've not considered.

[Svejk]

prison authorities have to accept it, naomi. could you imagine the outcry if they took any other course.

[Brenden]

It is not surprising when you realise that all muslims are taught to lie, cheat, deceive etc (according to the Koran ) all infidels - and folks - we are the infidels.

[naomi24]

Jim, if it was counter-balanced, the overall figures wouldn’t be what they are. Trying to find ways around it won't cure the problem.

Svejk, I don’t think that’s the reason.

[jim360]

Generally speaking I hate using percentages anyway, because they are always horribly misleading without context. The classic example of this is the, possibly apocryphal, story of some mayor of a Swiss village complaining that the number of muggings in the local area had increased "by 50%" -- by which he meant that there were 2 last year, and 3 this year.

So another factor of course is that it's not clear what the size of these prisons with an apparently abnormally large Muslim population is -- if they are small, then it doesn't become nearly as interesting.

[jim360]

"Jim, if it was counter-balanced, the overall figures wouldn’t be what they are. Trying to find ways around it won't cure the problem. "

How do you figure that? The overall proportion of Muslim prisoners is, according to the article, 14% of the total number of prisoners. If there are several prisons with more than this percentage, it follows that there have to be some prisons with rather less than this percentage so that the average of 14% is reached. Not necessarily the same number, because of the aforementioned issue with percentages, but certainly there are at least some prisons with rather fewer than 14% Muslims. Without the full set of figures I can't tell how many -- but it is certainly greater than none.

[naomi24]

The size of individual prisons is irrelevant. The figure is calculated collectively.