Would This Be Welcomed By The Left?

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26832994
When Red Ed and and co lose the next election will the unions launch a New version of Labour, New New Labour as it where and will the traditional Labour voter revert to the new hard left party? Could we see the emergence of a new socialist Labour party?

[naomi24]

Andrew, it sounds like you're chasing a Utopian world that doesn't exist - and has never existed. The rich and the poor will be found in every society - no matter how radically left wing the politics.

[andrew1707]

So should we just give up? Not even bother to help those at the bottom of the heap.
I don't mind people getting richer, but it shouldn't be at the expense of the poor.

[ToraToraTora]

"So should we just give up? Not even bother to help those at the bottom of the heap."

no andrew, we raise the whole heap, it's slow progress but that's the only way it can work. The "poor" today are hugely better off the poor of 50 years ago for example.

[andrew1707]

Ah...Trickle down economics...

In an ideal world good capitalists would make lots of money and also ensure that the wealth generated was passed down to the workers through good wages and to society in general through charity.

But we live in quite a greedy world where this doesn't happen. I am not an anti-capitalist, I know that capitalism is needed to generate wealth, but it needs to be a regulated capitalism that does not unfairly exploit people to make money.

When we live in a fair society everyone reaps the benefits.

But if you are still unsure, read on:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/06/rich-richer_n_4731408.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/15/pope-francis-defends-criticism-of-capitalism-not-marxist

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85

http://www.upworthy.com/trickle-down-theory-adorably-debunked-in-2-minutes

[andrew1707]

Even Pope Francis is completely against trickle down economics so it must be wrong... remember he is infallible......;-)

[ToraToraTora]

How do you explain the improvements in the standard of living in he last 50 years?

[naomi24]

Andrew, //When we live in a fair society everyone reaps the benefits.//

What? The benefits of someone else’s foresight, ingenuity, enterprise, dedication, enthusiasm, personal sacrifice, and damned hard work – is that what you mean? Why should they?

[andrew1707]

Naomi, I'm not suggesting a Soviet era society where all workers get the same wage and there is little incentive to work harder or to take risks.

If a business owner is successful then he deserves to reap the rewards of his success (whilst still paying taxes of course!!) But the workers in his factories, who have helped him achieve his success, should also benefit from the success by receiving a good wage and good working conditions.

Isn't it strange that many on the right are happy to see shareholders in a company, who don't actually do very much apart from invest some money, benefit greatly from the companies success but don't think the workers, who have helped make the company a success, should get some reward for all their hard work...and please, don't say that they "should be happy to have a job in the first place".

[andrew1707]

--> TTT
Yes, conditions have improved for the working classes over the last 50 years...but the divide between rich and poor has increased greatly.

Also, poverty is relative, e.g. 50 years ago not having a television would not be unusual or a sign of poverty; today, only the poorest in society can't afford one.

[naomi24]

Andrew, I haven’t said any of that – you said it - but I don’t think it’s strange at all that people who invest their money in a business receive a return on it. You wouldn’t expect to put your money into a savings account and receive no interest on it, would you?

Workers get their reward for doing the job – their wages. That said, a lot of businesses give extra to the workforce in the shape of annual bonuses.