Is This Really The Best Use Of £50Bn?

[youngmafbog]

http://news.sky.com/story/1251228/hs2-tory-mps-rebel-as-government-wins-vote

"In the vote on the bill itself there was a comfortable victory for the Government of 452 votes to 41, a majority of 411."

So I guess all parties want it. I could back it if more freight was to move by rail, but it wont and I really cannot see that it will regenerate the North. The fares will be out of the reach of most people and companies these days have tight budgets so the only people we will see on it will be Government officials and civil servants probably

[emmie]

most my colleagues commuted, one had a two hour hike in, horrendous, late, cancelled trains, and very expensive, this was some years ago now, one guy paid 5 grand for the pleasure of being herded like a sheep, and often not getting a seat.

[Farriercm]

Gravy Train for the , you know who.

[emmie]

wasn't this in the pipeline for a long time, so not a preserve of the con/lib, if that is what you are suggesting

[lady-janine]

what a waste of money. it could be used for good of the country and not just a glory ride (no pun intended) for out of touch politicos. disgusting.

[emmie]

many our stations, infrastructure need overhauling, better to put the money into that

[Farriercm]

Similar system in South Africa, I think they called theirs The Blue Train.

[youngmafbog]

Farrier, with 452 votes for (and many Tories voting or 'going missing') means labour voted for it too.

Assuming you are doing your usual anti Tory dig.

[Farriercm]

Always wanted to take the trip on The Blue Train ,in South Africa. One of these Days? keep doing the lottery.

[youngmafbog]

I think this is intended to be more like the TGV than the luxury SA train.

HS2 will be a glorified commuter train.

[emmie]

it won't even be that, because by the time its built internet, on line meetings, will be more commonplace. office type work can be done almost anywhere now, including at home, with hi tech computers, smart phones

[mushroom25]

emmie, remote meetings (videoconferencing) can never wholly take the place of actual meetings - at a recent one held by my company, one of the key participants walked out and no-one noticed for 15mn. he'd just got bored and gone off for a water cooler conference. needless to say nothing good at all came out of that meeting.

[emmie]

we had meetings, about meetings, waste of time mostly, bored out of our skulls.

[youngmafbog]

That is very true emmie. I am working at home at the minute and have been on worldwide conference calls.

As I work for one of the biggest banks in the world we need to interact with people right around the world daily so no chance of a personal meeting.

I think we are still some way off total home working though.

[andy-hughes]

I accept that the politicians have a vested interest in not seeing what goes on outside their remit - i.e. north of Watford, but the scale of this vanity project is obscene.

Evidence shows that Spain did not significantly benefit from a similar scheme, and Croydon, which now has high-speed trains has not benefited significantly either.

The North - South Divide has nothing at all to do with transport links, it is cultural, and transport links will not alter it one iota, and it is naiive to think that it would.

Witness the much vaunted 'Manchester' (Salford actually, but the're all the same north of Watford aren't they?) move by the BBC. How much cultural change has been caused by those who simply refused to relocate and charged the Corporation a massive chunk of licence payers' money in travel and hotels?

The usual under-estimate will spiral out of control, the initial movers will be well out of it by the time the bomb drops, and ou children will be burdened with the white elephant that remains.

It's not rocket science is it? if i can figure it out - why can't MP's?

Ahhh, that's because I get no money and / or kudos if this nonsense goes through.

[Gromit]

China is investing $65 billion each year on high speed rail. Our rail infrastructure will be third world by comparison.

[Bazile]

50Bn ? - and the rest
See you all here in 2033 to discuss why the costs has spiralled to xxBn.

Some of you will be OAP's - (what a depressing thought ) including those responsible for this project .

[Gromit]

// Evidence shows that Spain did not significantly benefit from a similar scheme //
The Spanish have been far more ambitious in their high speed rail plans. HS2 does not compare with what the Spanish have already done.

// OVER the last 25 years Spain has made a massive effort to develop a modern standard-gauge railway network and during this period the country has gone from no high-speed lines at all to Europe's largest high-speed network. According to the UIC, Spain has the third largest network in the world, behind only Japan (2664km) and China (9356km).
The fruits of an investment worth more than €57bn (adjusted for inflation and including rolling stock) have been reaped this year with the opening of two new lines, which mark the beginning of a new phase in high-speed rail development in Spain. //

[emmie]

China by and large can afford it, we can't, they have been building on a grand scale, now they are finally joining the capitalist market, they may well leave us behind, fortunately we don't have their regime running the show.

[emmie]

Spain is heavily in debt, their job market for young is poor, unemployment very high, so spending lots of dough on projects that you may or may not need, and leaving the people to swan about on the dole, and get ever more fed up with austerity measures. Take care of problems in the economy first, it doesn't work by chucking non existent money at it.

[Brenden]

Must agree with Bazille £50 Bn is the starting price, it will probably be double that figure when finished,