Multiple Babies Taken From Mothers

[mikey4444]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-27943591

This is terrible. One mother has had 15 children removed from her !

Discussion going on at the moment on the Today program.

[Svejk]

yes, we should sterilize the selfish bitches.

[pixie373]

It is terrible. It can't be good for anybody. What is the answer though? Short of moving in a nanny for the mother and child- there's not much time to get someone on the right track during pregnancy.

[dunnitall]

Those Poor children born to mothers who are like this, sterilisation would be a sensible option to safeguard future children being put through this imo.

[wolf63]

She has given birth to all those children knowing that she can't cope.

Extreme answer is that she should be sterilize her. After 15 kids she is unlikely to change her ways.

It is sad for all concerned.

[mikey4444]

Not sure about sterilization, unless these Mothers could be sectioned, when such an extreme sanction can be used ( I think ? )

It has to come down to education in the end. Most of these mothers seem to be a bit on the dim side, although plenty of other uneducated women have children without them being taken into care. I had no idea of the scale of this until I read the link.

[kvalidir]

It must be ridiculously exasperating to find a woman who says ' It's not my fault, my partner battered her when she was 3 1/2 months old', loses care of her child because of that and then goes and gets pregnant again by the SAME man. There is something fundamentally more wrong than simple drink and drug addiction, there is clearly a deep seated sense of no self worth whatsoever within these women. As you say it's almost impossible to turn your life around in 9 months, so the only answer can be, if there is an answer at all in these sad cases, to engage the women during care proceedings for their first child, make a stringent contract with them involving rehabilitation ad relationships with other abusive partners and get them to agree to contraception for three years whilst they engage on their quest to turn their lives around. If they agree and do what is required then obviously that's good, if they don't then it should be made clear that they will have any subsequent children taken into care also. Nothing is ideal in these scenarios, it's a horrible mess, but that at least gives women who are genuinely determined a second chance.

[dunnitall]

What about the children in all this, I would say don't gamble with their lives and put them in this position when it's a potential for failure. Once is enough IMO.

[kvalidir]

That's why I am suggesting a three year minimum, you really can't gamble that someone is going to pull the wool over peoples eyes for a year and still be with the same low-life that nearly killed her last child. It would have to be very carefully done but hopefully it would break the cycle that seem to be so prevalent here.

[pixie373]

Maybe long-term contraceptive (coil/implant) should be part of the agreement while working with the family with the first child. She would be unlikely to have 15 children if they weren't being taken away.

[kvalidir]

Yeah I agree Pixi, I mentioned contraceptive agreement, I think that's vital, partly to void this happening and partly to give the woman some time for herself to just exist in her own body and build the strength to leave the negative things and people behind. Its not something that can be done in 5 minutes, this would take time, work and trust- which I think might be the huge stumbling block here, how easy would it be for these women to trust a social worker who was instrumental in removing her last child? Not very I wouldn't imagine, which is why I think designated teams of professionals might be better in this scenario than people who have previously worked with the woman.

[mikey4444]

I understand from the BBC link that the woman with 15 children is an exception. Most of these mothers haven't had anything like that many kids taken away from them. But its still a serious situation.

[pixie373]

Yes, i imagine it's a pattern though, however many they have. They're left to get on with it once the child is safely out of the way, get pregnant, go straight on the at-risk and this can apparently happen repeatedly, with no long-term plan.

[weecalf]

Nothing can and should be done ,every child is a gift and should be given every chance in live .

[tamborine]

Some mums are handicapped and mentally unable to care for their babies but that doesn't stop some men taking advantage of them. A penalty should be imposed on those abusing these women.

[pixie373]

That is a point, tambo. However, many of the fathers are very similar and in theory, anybody over the age of 16 can consent. How would you say who can't and how would men know?

[New Judge]

Yes 15 children is exceptional. But there are many cases of four, five, six and seven. Sorry but these women should be compuslorily sterilised. There is no reason why the taxpayer should pay for a woman to continually churn out children whom they have no hope of bringing up reasonably, to say nothing of the problems that bearing so many children who will have to be cared for by somebody else.

Yes, the women themselves may have problems. But there is no earthy reason to compound those problems by foisting numerous children they cannot care for onto somebody else.

Sorry weecalf but your suggestion ("Nothing can and should be done ,every child is a gift and should be given every chance in live .) is illogical (if the children were not conceived in the first place they would not be a gif and would not need the chance to live) and irresponsible. To continue to condemn the women to such a life and the children to such uncertainty is absolutely ridiculous.

[atalanta]

What bothers me is the possibility that many of these babies may be born damaged. Damaged by the mother's use of drink and/or drugs, and by the batterings inflicted on the pregnant woman.
If the chances are that the woman can be persuaded ( by money, threats of jail, removal of existing children or whatever else) then clearly contraception is the answer. You may say "every child is a gift" but is every unnecessarily-damaged child quite such a gift ?

[New Judge]

I think we need to move away from this "every child is a gift" stance, atalanta. The aim should be to prevent such conceptions then there would be no child to be a gift or otherwise. The world in general suffers huge problems from over population and the UK certainly does.

[maggiebee]

May I ask where the fathers are in this debate??

[starone]

You certainly couldn't leave the babies with them to be mistreated, or even killed. I am in complete agreement with anyone who is advocating sterilisation, but does anyone care enough to put the necessary laws in place?