Where Have All The Women Gone?

[New Judge]

I've just watched an item on the news concerning the sentencing of eight men for the murder of mother Shehnila Taufiq, 47, her daughter Zainab, 19, and sons Bilal, 17 and Jamal, 15. They died after the eight set fire to their house whilst they were asleep. The family were Muslim and a local Mullah was paying tribute.

Nice photographs of Bilal and Jamal in their traditional dress with what looked liked holy books were shown, but none of Shehnila and Zainab. Scenes from the funerals were also shown. It was said many hundreds of people attended which was certainly supported by the footage. But among those hundreds I could see not a single female mourner.

Where are all the Muslim women? Why are they invisible? Did the mother or daughters have no female family or friends who may have liked to pay their last respects? I'm really puzzled.

[smoneybags]

I think it is against Muslim tradition and teaching for women to attend funerals.

[Buenchico]

"Traditionally, only men are allowed to be present at the burial"
https://www.everplans.com/tools-and-resources/muslim-funeral-traditions

[smoneybags]

http://www.mfs.asn.au/faq.html

[DTCwordfan]

Somewhat akin to traditional Methodist, Presbyterian and Scottish/Irish minority sects where just the men appear............!

[New Judge]

Keep the stuff coming about the funerals, boys and girls. I have my own views which I'll expand on later.

Perhaps we could also have some views on why the BBC did not manage to get a photo of mother and daughter.

[kvalidir]

this is a copy and paste from Inner Reflections, which explains somewhat the Muslim perspective on this and then historical reasoning behind women not attending the graveside.

//The most commonly referred to explanation for disallowing women to attend funerals was due to the loud wailing and improper conduct of beating themselves and tearing their hair/clothes that most engaged in – and this is the reason currently still used although it would be relatively obsolete and varying depending on the temperament and degree of control the individual has over themselves and their senses
The traditions state that the custom was to employ women who used to wail and bemoan the dead. It would seem if we accept the hadith, that this may have been the reason for any early prohibitions. It ought to be noted too that men are also prohibited from wailing and tearing their hair, etc. Once this was understood and became the law of Islam, there was no need to prevent either sex from attending a janazah in a graveyard………Therefore, a woman cannot be deemed as being too emotional to attend a funeral — be it in the mosque or the graveyard — for as I have pointed out, the prohibition is for both men and women if it is feared that they will deport themselves in a manner deemed improper in Islam.
The absence of any clear indication of the permissbility or impermissibility on this matter, as with other matters, is taken to indicate that if something is not explicitily stated to be disallowed/forbidden then it should not be hastily assumed or taken to be as such
….And we seem to forget that the Qur’an states: “…and He has clearly explained what is forbidden unto you.” If we cannot find a prohibition in the Qur’an, then no Imam — no single person — has a right to enforce any interdiction. May Allah guide us to do that which is correct.//

[DTCwordfan]

and also ultra-Orthodox Jewish funerals?

I can remember my paternal grandfather's funeral, the only two women being my aunts. I was the youngest male there, just 13, and a great way to greet a new decade, the funeral held on 01.01. - and involving two services, one for the family and one for the town as he had been Mayor five times.

[kvalidir]

There were women at my grandfather's funeral DT but they played no major part as is tradition- it was totally male dominated.

[kvalidir]

I'm not Muslim Divebuddy, my father is Irish Catholic my mother is Jewish as most people on here already know.

[Lindylou]

Tells you everything about how women are regarded in Muslim culture. Nothing will change until women start deciding that they are 'worth it' and aren't putting up with their menfolk's bullying any more. Though I suspect many more will end up in suitcases/canals before anything changes.

[Mamyalynne]

A lovely dear neighbour of mine was brought up in a strict Presbyterian family - she was in the early nineties when her husband died.


On top of the grief at losing him, she was in a blind panic, she and most of the women she grew up with had never been to a funeral let alone arranged one.

My late husband and I stepped in and helped, it went smoothly on the day, I held her hand throughout.

[humbersloop]

/Perhaps we could also have some views on why the BBC did not manage to get a photo of mother and daughter//

why? as though we're somehow "entitled" to see one??

[boxtops]

Why should we expect to see such a photo? Photos are not encouraged in strict Muslim households. They may not have any photos of the females without head covering and that wouldn't be permitted to be shown in the media.

[ludwig]

// why? as though we're somehow "entitled" to see one?? //

We're not entitled to see one of the boys either, but we did. NJ's question concerns why we are shown a picture of the males but not the females, as I'm sure you're aware.

[humbersloop]

New Judge asked for views ludwig, and I gave some

I make no assumptions about his own reasons for asking until, as he said, he tells us later

[New Judge]

OK guys. Nearly time for my kip so I'll come clean.

I have a confession to make. Of course I know where all the Muslim women are. They are home indoors, not "encouraged" by their men folk to become too involved in anything in the outside world, least of all a funeral (or for that matter anything else). Muslim women are dominated by their men. They are told what they can do, where they can go, who they can see, what they must wear, who they must vote for (if indeed they are permitted to vote), what they must have done to their bodies. Quite simply they are completely controlled by men who see them simply as child bearing chattels. That's also why photos of the sons were readily available and provided but none of the mother and daughter were forthcoming. If this had been a report on a non-Muslim family pictures of all the victims would have been displayed. Indeed it would have seemed very odd if they were not.

As has been mentioned some other religions treat women in a similar fashion in some isolated circumstances but none comes close to Islam when it comes to their treatment overall. The background and rationale to all this is fascinating stuff - if you were living in the Middle East in medieval times. But these people live in the UK in the 21st century. If any other section of society behaved towards women in this way they would be - quite rightly - castigated. Equality is supposed to be one of the lynch pins of UK society but gender equality has simply been sidestepped by Muslims and ridiculous reasons are promoted to justify it. What I have described in the BBC report is simply a manifestation of this appalling attitude. Women in the UK fought and died for to achieve even very basic equality and now their memory is being desecrated outrageously.

A few contenders for “best answer” but Lindylou shades it for coming quickly to the point.

[237SJ]

NJ - regarding your first paragraph - it wasn`t so long ago that that ethos applied in this country. Your description sounds like the attitude towards women in Victorian Britain. Don`t knock it - we`re only about a hundred years or so further ahead.