News1 min ago
Notting Hill Carnival?
109 Answers
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With a record like this, why has it not been banned, well we know the reason don't we?
*** Since the carnival did not have local authority permission, initial police involvement was aimed at preventing it taking place at all, which resulted in regular confrontation and riots. ***
Wikipedia.
/// Scotland Yard staged a series of dawn raids on Tuesday linked to this weekend's Notting Hill carnival in west London. Weapons including two machine guns and a handgun, crack cocaine and about £70,000 in cash were seized, and 88 people were arrested. ///
/// Ch Supt Robyn Williams said: "We are committed to ensuring that Notting Hill carnival remains a safe, vibrant and enjoyable event. ///
Why wait until just before this Carnival, the police should be raiding these premises on a regular basis throughout the year?
With a record like this, why has it not been banned, well we know the reason don't we?
*** Since the carnival did not have local authority permission, initial police involvement was aimed at preventing it taking place at all, which resulted in regular confrontation and riots. ***
Wikipedia.
/// Scotland Yard staged a series of dawn raids on Tuesday linked to this weekend's Notting Hill carnival in west London. Weapons including two machine guns and a handgun, crack cocaine and about £70,000 in cash were seized, and 88 people were arrested. ///
/// Ch Supt Robyn Williams said: "We are committed to ensuring that Notting Hill carnival remains a safe, vibrant and enjoyable event. ///
Why wait until just before this Carnival, the police should be raiding these premises on a regular basis throughout the year?
Answers
jno and getting food poisoning for their trouble. Street food is openly sold without food hygiene inspectors being allowed to inspect the poor standards being used. Booze is sold on the streets at extortionate prices from ad hoc stalls.No excise licence needed at Carnival for these hawkers who are breaking the law. Police instructed to ignore use and sale...
12:13 Thu 21st Aug 2014
"But it is not compulsary. "
It is if you live there. I had a friend (sadly now deceased) who lived in a nice little flat in All Saints Road. She lived there long before this nonsense began. After a few years of sleeplessness for 96 hours, of being unable to leave her front door for the best part of a week and being fretful that some drug-crazed idiot would be banging on her door at 3am (as one once did) she gave up and went to stay with friends for a week each August. She had to take with her anything of any value as break-ins increase enormously during "Carnival" and was fearful when she returned for what she might find. For her (and probably many more besides) fun it was not.
"Carnival" should have been nipped in the bud when it began in the 1960s. It is nothing but an excuse for a load of idiots to take to the streets in pursuit of their "enjoyment" with scant regard for anybody else or the usual rules that apply to us all. There are plenty of places in the world where this sort of rubbish is enjoyed but Notting Hill is not the place for it.
It is if you live there. I had a friend (sadly now deceased) who lived in a nice little flat in All Saints Road. She lived there long before this nonsense began. After a few years of sleeplessness for 96 hours, of being unable to leave her front door for the best part of a week and being fretful that some drug-crazed idiot would be banging on her door at 3am (as one once did) she gave up and went to stay with friends for a week each August. She had to take with her anything of any value as break-ins increase enormously during "Carnival" and was fearful when she returned for what she might find. For her (and probably many more besides) fun it was not.
"Carnival" should have been nipped in the bud when it began in the 1960s. It is nothing but an excuse for a load of idiots to take to the streets in pursuit of their "enjoyment" with scant regard for anybody else or the usual rules that apply to us all. There are plenty of places in the world where this sort of rubbish is enjoyed but Notting Hill is not the place for it.
I think the reason why the NHC isn't banned might be the same reason why we don't ban football matches even when violence has erupted between fans before and after matches.
Perhaps the police are taking a pragmatic approach, as last year there were around 300 arrests (mainly for public order and drug offences) out of 1 million who attended.
Those figures alone suggest that the police aren't turning 'a blind eye' as some suggest to open drug taking.
Regarding 'kettling - this is a process whereby demonstrators are boxed into an area and are kept there for an indeterminate amount of time.
This doesn't happen at the NHC, at least, I've never seen it in the quarter of a century I've been going to it.
The barriers which are erected are a safety measure to protect crowds...something that we have all seen in telly in most big public events where large crowds are expected.
It would be interesting to hear from others who have been to the NHC...what are *your* experiences?
Perhaps the police are taking a pragmatic approach, as last year there were around 300 arrests (mainly for public order and drug offences) out of 1 million who attended.
Those figures alone suggest that the police aren't turning 'a blind eye' as some suggest to open drug taking.
Regarding 'kettling - this is a process whereby demonstrators are boxed into an area and are kept there for an indeterminate amount of time.
This doesn't happen at the NHC, at least, I've never seen it in the quarter of a century I've been going to it.
The barriers which are erected are a safety measure to protect crowds...something that we have all seen in telly in most big public events where large crowds are expected.
It would be interesting to hear from others who have been to the NHC...what are *your* experiences?
-- answer removed --
No real need for personal comments.
Back to the OP - any large gathering brings with it extra chance of problems and I doubt banning it would work. The Police seem to have good intelligence and act on it.
I can see it must cause misery for local residents who hate it, but have a secret longing to visit and soak up some of the atmosphere.
Back to the OP - any large gathering brings with it extra chance of problems and I doubt banning it would work. The Police seem to have good intelligence and act on it.
I can see it must cause misery for local residents who hate it, but have a secret longing to visit and soak up some of the atmosphere.
I have been a couple of times. The police were the biggest issue there. Stopped me from getting on the pavement outside the train station so I could leave. Apparently they had orders to prevent it, so I was stuck in the road trying to avoid the carnival that had then reached that point.
Not that, that was the only highlight. There are the crowds who can only go to the toilet (respectfully) in the various pubs, so one can hardly move in places and seem forever bursting to reach the next pub. Then I recall I ate goat curry one time, got food poisoning. But the floats were nice, as were the pretty ladies in their costumes. The music loud. Folk should go at least once to say they've been and that, that probably is enough.
Not that, that was the only highlight. There are the crowds who can only go to the toilet (respectfully) in the various pubs, so one can hardly move in places and seem forever bursting to reach the next pub. Then I recall I ate goat curry one time, got food poisoning. But the floats were nice, as were the pretty ladies in their costumes. The music loud. Folk should go at least once to say they've been and that, that probably is enough.
sp and jno
I think old geezer's post has pretty much corroborated my early posts at 1313 and 1317 re goat curry and food poisoning. Not allowed to leave the pavement, get or go decently to the loo unless you pay silly money to use a pub's overflowing,stinking toilet.
Sp.
I am very much aware what kettling is and involves. It is used in Public Order breakdowns to control the free movement of people.
The barriers at NHC may well be called "safety barriers" but they achieve the same purpose.They prevent the free movement and chosen direction of spectators usually accompanied by a police officer yelling in a bull horn" to keep moving". It is tantamount to kettling by whatever description you choose. Your free passage is dictated to by the police officers on duty, as a necessity,as stated earlier.
As for only 300 arrests made last year which is less than at a football match or two mentioned by another ABer. What about the several hundred purses and hand bags piled high in the station yard I mentioned earlier. If arrests were made for every one of these thefts (pickpocketing) we would have in excess of 1000 arrests at NHC.That is without counting all the unreported crimes.
I think old geezer's post has pretty much corroborated my early posts at 1313 and 1317 re goat curry and food poisoning. Not allowed to leave the pavement, get or go decently to the loo unless you pay silly money to use a pub's overflowing,stinking toilet.
Sp.
I am very much aware what kettling is and involves. It is used in Public Order breakdowns to control the free movement of people.
The barriers at NHC may well be called "safety barriers" but they achieve the same purpose.They prevent the free movement and chosen direction of spectators usually accompanied by a police officer yelling in a bull horn" to keep moving". It is tantamount to kettling by whatever description you choose. Your free passage is dictated to by the police officers on duty, as a necessity,as stated earlier.
As for only 300 arrests made last year which is less than at a football match or two mentioned by another ABer. What about the several hundred purses and hand bags piled high in the station yard I mentioned earlier. If arrests were made for every one of these thefts (pickpocketing) we would have in excess of 1000 arrests at NHC.That is without counting all the unreported crimes.
Henrietta
/// Let's not be killjoys ///
Better to 'kill joy' than kill persons.
/// Should we ban all gatherings over 10 people? parties? Clubs? Festivals? Pubs? ///
Yes if there are shootings, stabbings, rioting, drugs, damage to property and all other violent acts.
/// During the 2000 Carnival, two men were murdered and future policing, while conciliatory, has led to police deployment in large numbers - upwards of 11,000. Some of the crime associated has been displaced to the periphery. In 2007, two teenagers were shot just outside the carnival area. ///
/// The 2008 Carnival was marred by rioting right at the very end of the weekend, involving large numbers of youths and injuries to police. Some media outlets captured footage of the violence; ///
Ah yes, all good fun except for these five unfortunates.
Five murders have taken place since 1987:
30 August 1987 - Michael Augustine Galvin, 23, stallholder - stabbed.
26 August 1991 - Nicholas John Hanscomb, 38, bled to death after being stabbed in the thigh.
28 August 2000 - Greg Fitzgerald Watson, 21, stabbed to death after an argument over food.
28 August 2000 - Abdul Munam Bhatti, 28, beaten to death in a racially motivated attack by a group of 40-50 youths.
30 August 2004 - Lee Christopher Surbaran, 27, shot by a gang using a machine pistol for "showing disrespect".
With a record like that it should have been banned years ago.
/// Let's not be killjoys ///
Better to 'kill joy' than kill persons.
/// Should we ban all gatherings over 10 people? parties? Clubs? Festivals? Pubs? ///
Yes if there are shootings, stabbings, rioting, drugs, damage to property and all other violent acts.
/// During the 2000 Carnival, two men were murdered and future policing, while conciliatory, has led to police deployment in large numbers - upwards of 11,000. Some of the crime associated has been displaced to the periphery. In 2007, two teenagers were shot just outside the carnival area. ///
/// The 2008 Carnival was marred by rioting right at the very end of the weekend, involving large numbers of youths and injuries to police. Some media outlets captured footage of the violence; ///
Ah yes, all good fun except for these five unfortunates.
Five murders have taken place since 1987:
30 August 1987 - Michael Augustine Galvin, 23, stallholder - stabbed.
26 August 1991 - Nicholas John Hanscomb, 38, bled to death after being stabbed in the thigh.
28 August 2000 - Greg Fitzgerald Watson, 21, stabbed to death after an argument over food.
28 August 2000 - Abdul Munam Bhatti, 28, beaten to death in a racially motivated attack by a group of 40-50 youths.
30 August 2004 - Lee Christopher Surbaran, 27, shot by a gang using a machine pistol for "showing disrespect".
With a record like that it should have been banned years ago.
Henrietta
Where people become intoxicated they usually become rude and angry whatever they drink. I don't disbelieve it happens at Hampton court or Chelsea.
The difference is, however, these hooray Henry's as booring and arrogant as they may be don't try to rob you at knifepoint or steal your wallet. Both events are held on private enclosed property and cause no disruption to the transport system or people trying to go about their daily routine business in the area. I would suggest the policing costs are minimal as at both events they hire their own security at no extra cost to the tax payer. Now these events are traditional to this country unlike the other. I am getting rather sick of having the merits of diversity rammed down my throat in my own country.
Where people become intoxicated they usually become rude and angry whatever they drink. I don't disbelieve it happens at Hampton court or Chelsea.
The difference is, however, these hooray Henry's as booring and arrogant as they may be don't try to rob you at knifepoint or steal your wallet. Both events are held on private enclosed property and cause no disruption to the transport system or people trying to go about their daily routine business in the area. I would suggest the policing costs are minimal as at both events they hire their own security at no extra cost to the tax payer. Now these events are traditional to this country unlike the other. I am getting rather sick of having the merits of diversity rammed down my throat in my own country.
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