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When Will The U S A Ever Learn Not To Play With Guns
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I wouldn't let a 9 year old loose with felt tip pens let alone a semi automatic machine pistol!!
I wouldn't let a 9 year old loose with felt tip pens let alone a semi automatic machine pistol!!
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While teaching a nine year old to use a sub machine gun is over the top it's only the same age I was when my father tought me to handle a shotgun,a nice little .410,I still own, It was common practice and probabley still is for country boys and girls to be trained in the safe use of shot guns they're an integral part of country life both for vermin control and the pot, but teaching kids to use military grade weapons something else.
I think Paddywak sums it up, the gun lobby lumps all weapons together under their spurious interpretation of the 2nd, I have knives fit for purpose in my kitchen that are legal, however that legality does not allow me to carry a machete and display it in a public places. Americans who support the NRA can't make that distinction with guns.
A good point debo.
I think a major part of the problem, as I have mentioned - is the 'frontier' psyche that Americans tend to have, that is fostered by the fright-mongering of their politicians and their media, that makes them think that every man is only a man if he can circle the waggons and shoot them damn' injuns .... well, you get the idea.
It is a very real issue, and as advised by another AB'er, the power of the NRA is considerable.
No president is ever going to meaningfully tackle gun ownership because that is an instant ticket out of the Whitehouse.
I think a major part of the problem, as I have mentioned - is the 'frontier' psyche that Americans tend to have, that is fostered by the fright-mongering of their politicians and their media, that makes them think that every man is only a man if he can circle the waggons and shoot them damn' injuns .... well, you get the idea.
It is a very real issue, and as advised by another AB'er, the power of the NRA is considerable.
No president is ever going to meaningfully tackle gun ownership because that is an instant ticket out of the Whitehouse.
Mr P has (fully licensed) shotguns and rifles. He is fastidious about safety. They are kept in a locked gun cabinet at his parents' house (he and his father both hold licenses). The cabinet itself is inside a locked cupboard and even I don't know where the keys are kept.
Our kids are aware that Daddy and Grampa have guns, but neither have touched or held a gun and won't until they are teenagers when Mr P will teach them safety and respect for firearms.
Our kids are aware that Daddy and Grampa have guns, but neither have touched or held a gun and won't until they are teenagers when Mr P will teach them safety and respect for firearms.
jno - "she wasn't playing with it, she was learning to fire it. Something went wrong, but that can happen when you're learning to drive, swim or whatever. An isolated case, that's why it's news."
Pedantic - but true.
It doesn't detract from the bigger question - what are a nine-year-old and a loaded automatic weapon doing in the same room?
Pedantic - but true.
It doesn't detract from the bigger question - what are a nine-year-old and a loaded automatic weapon doing in the same room?
Hypognosis - "A gun instructor so lacking in imagination that he couldn't foretell that the sustained recoil of an automatic weapon could overpower a 9 year old?"
I think the lack of imagination comes in where the thought "A nine year old should not be handling a gun of any kind, much less an automatic military weapon." did not occur.
I think the lack of imagination comes in where the thought "A nine year old should not be handling a gun of any kind, much less an automatic military weapon." did not occur.
Andy, all the posts are looking at it UK-centric.
In this country I would not want to see American style gun laws. However I do realize it is a different ball game once outside the cities. Take a look at a map, America is vast and still very wild in places. It is simply not practical to not be able to defend yourself for one reason or another. Why cant you see that?
As for abolishing guns it is a far bigger issue than you think. The right to bear arms is embedded into the constitution. OK, I think we can all see that for guns perhaps the constitution should be amended. The problem is once the constitution has been changed for something as fundamental asa that Americans are fearful people (mainly lefties and commies) will hijack their country by changing other parts of it.
Secondly, let us not forget a law is only any good if the vast majority support it, otherwise problems arise - take prohibition that created the rise of the mobsters.
And lastly, for the moment, just how would you propose all the guns in America are got rid off. Good honest people may hand them in but I cant see criminals doing that can you? Therefore your 'if everyone lays down their arms there is no need for them' doesnt wash does it?
In this country I would not want to see American style gun laws. However I do realize it is a different ball game once outside the cities. Take a look at a map, America is vast and still very wild in places. It is simply not practical to not be able to defend yourself for one reason or another. Why cant you see that?
As for abolishing guns it is a far bigger issue than you think. The right to bear arms is embedded into the constitution. OK, I think we can all see that for guns perhaps the constitution should be amended. The problem is once the constitution has been changed for something as fundamental asa that Americans are fearful people (mainly lefties and commies) will hijack their country by changing other parts of it.
Secondly, let us not forget a law is only any good if the vast majority support it, otherwise problems arise - take prohibition that created the rise of the mobsters.
And lastly, for the moment, just how would you propose all the guns in America are got rid off. Good honest people may hand them in but I cant see criminals doing that can you? Therefore your 'if everyone lays down their arms there is no need for them' doesnt wash does it?
youngmafbog - "Andy, all the posts are looking at it UK-centric."
I don't believe mine are, if you re-read them.
"Take a look at a map, America is vast and still very wild in places. It is simply not practical to not be able to defend yourself for one reason or another. Why cant you see that?"
I am aware of how mig America is - I have been there.
You appear to agree with the 'frontier' mentality that afflicts Americans. They have police forces, the same as we do - the notion that people need to arm themslves simply exacerbates an already massive problem.
"As for abolishing guns it is a far bigger issue than you think. The right to bear arms is embedded into the constitution. OK, I think we can all see that for guns perhaps the constitution should be amended. The problem is once the constitution has been changed for something as fundamental asa that Americans are fearful people (mainly lefties and commies) will hijack their country by changing other parts of it."
I don't require a lesson in civics, thank you, I am entirely aware of the Right To Bear Arms, and the effect it continues to have on the population.
"Secondly, let us not forget a law is only any good if the vast majority support it, otherwise problems arise - take prohibition that created the rise of the mobsters."
I have already addressed that point - the power of the NRA and right-wing affiliates is acknowledged, no President would sanction altering the lawas to make guns illegal nationwide - that will simply never happen.
"And lastly, for the moment, just how would you propose all the guns in America are got rid off. Good honest people may hand them in but I cant see criminals doing that can you?"
I have no answer to that question - because there isn't one. That particular genie is out of the bottle.
But this thread, and ChillDoubt's original point remains valid - it is the ability to let children handle and fire guns that has to be fundamentally wrong, and can be addresseds - if only to avoid tragedies like the one that has highlighted this issue, and started the debate.
"Therefore your 'if everyone lays down their arms there is no need for them' doesnt wash does it?"
Probably not, but that statement, or indeed its viewpoint is not mine, I have never said that, so I fail to see why you are asking me if it washes or not.
I don't believe mine are, if you re-read them.
"Take a look at a map, America is vast and still very wild in places. It is simply not practical to not be able to defend yourself for one reason or another. Why cant you see that?"
I am aware of how mig America is - I have been there.
You appear to agree with the 'frontier' mentality that afflicts Americans. They have police forces, the same as we do - the notion that people need to arm themslves simply exacerbates an already massive problem.
"As for abolishing guns it is a far bigger issue than you think. The right to bear arms is embedded into the constitution. OK, I think we can all see that for guns perhaps the constitution should be amended. The problem is once the constitution has been changed for something as fundamental asa that Americans are fearful people (mainly lefties and commies) will hijack their country by changing other parts of it."
I don't require a lesson in civics, thank you, I am entirely aware of the Right To Bear Arms, and the effect it continues to have on the population.
"Secondly, let us not forget a law is only any good if the vast majority support it, otherwise problems arise - take prohibition that created the rise of the mobsters."
I have already addressed that point - the power of the NRA and right-wing affiliates is acknowledged, no President would sanction altering the lawas to make guns illegal nationwide - that will simply never happen.
"And lastly, for the moment, just how would you propose all the guns in America are got rid off. Good honest people may hand them in but I cant see criminals doing that can you?"
I have no answer to that question - because there isn't one. That particular genie is out of the bottle.
But this thread, and ChillDoubt's original point remains valid - it is the ability to let children handle and fire guns that has to be fundamentally wrong, and can be addresseds - if only to avoid tragedies like the one that has highlighted this issue, and started the debate.
"Therefore your 'if everyone lays down their arms there is no need for them' doesnt wash does it?"
Probably not, but that statement, or indeed its viewpoint is not mine, I have never said that, so I fail to see why you are asking me if it washes or not.
While I can understand why some Americans feel so frightened of black people that they see the need to arm themselves with assault weapons, quite why any parent would want their children to play with a sub-machine gun is completely beyond me. We could put it down to the usual American innate difficulty with rational behaviour but its got to be more than that surely ?
If you you watch the BBC clip, the owner actually says that kids as young as 5 are allowed to use the shooting range, "proved the parents are present"
Sheer madness and an "Only in America" moment. Astonishingly stupid.
If you you watch the BBC clip, the owner actually says that kids as young as 5 are allowed to use the shooting range, "proved the parents are present"
Sheer madness and an "Only in America" moment. Astonishingly stupid.
///Youngmaf, a gun is no defence against a bear// Really ? I reckon an Uzi would sort it out well and proper. What planet are you on? /
Strangely youngmaf, planet reality. I once had a chat with a guy who had an encounter with a grizzly in Canada, fortunately his gun jammed which probably saved his life., As his older and wiser partner observed 'if you had shot him he would have sure as hell killed you'. As it was the bear turned around and walked away, which is what you can do with rattlers.
Strangely youngmaf, planet reality. I once had a chat with a guy who had an encounter with a grizzly in Canada, fortunately his gun jammed which probably saved his life., As his older and wiser partner observed 'if you had shot him he would have sure as hell killed you'. As it was the bear turned around and walked away, which is what you can do with rattlers.
I encountered a huge black bear once, in the Rockies about 20 years ago. Not being an American and therefore not possessing an assault rifle, I escaped unhurt by throwing the rental car in reverse awfully quickly, which seemed to do the trick.
In Britain this would never have worked however. Not because we don't have many bears but within seconds of reversing, I would have crashed into a BMW, with a fan of Jeremy Clarkson at the wheel, who had been speeding as usual, far too close behind.
But I agree Jomifl...an Uzi would have completely ruined the bears day.
In Britain this would never have worked however. Not because we don't have many bears but within seconds of reversing, I would have crashed into a BMW, with a fan of Jeremy Clarkson at the wheel, who had been speeding as usual, far too close behind.
But I agree Jomifl...an Uzi would have completely ruined the bears day.
Youngmaf......are you seriously saying that those who live in remote areas of the USA should go around armed? Or have I got that wrong?
I lived near the foothills of The Rockies.....We spent a lot of time in the hills and mountains where bears were common.
I know that my family and I would have posed more of a danger carrying loaded guns on a walk through the woods than any bear would.
We learned how to be as safe as possible in bear country......and that didn't include going armed.
I lived near the foothills of The Rockies.....We spent a lot of time in the hills and mountains where bears were common.
I know that my family and I would have posed more of a danger carrying loaded guns on a walk through the woods than any bear would.
We learned how to be as safe as possible in bear country......and that didn't include going armed.
Mikey, whilst an uzi would seriously annoy a bear it doesn't have either the calibre or muzzle velocity to cause immediate fatality though the bear might bleed slowly to death. You need a large calibre rifle to penetrate the bone and tissue sufficiently to reach the brain or heart and kill the bear before it kills you.
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