Should We Get Cyclists Obeying The Law Before We Double Their Numbers?

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29645503
Riding on pavements, through red lights! last thing we need more of these outlaws.

[ChillDoubt]

I obey it to the letter of the Highway Code. Maybe if we provided the correct infrastructure, we'd all benefit greatly:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29601069

Given the recent unparallelled success of GB Cycling in all spheres it would be criminal to let this opportunity slip, one that could change the mindset of a generation.
Did you see the crowds in Yorkshire for the TdF?
It was beyond everyone's wildest dreams and expectations. Even seasoned pros and fans alike were taken aback by the interest, it was phenomenal.
Let's not waste it, the governmwnt need to pick it up and run with it.

[ChillDoubt]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20068083

I wear my helmet even for a 1 minute ride to the Post Office, no idea why the usually safety-mad Germans have shunned them, but they appear to have got everything else right.

[douglas9401]

"Let's not waste it, the governmwnt need to pick it up and run with it."

What then, praytell, would be the point of pedals and chain?

[Slapshot]

Like Chilldoubt, I obey the highway code always wear a helmet, I pay my road taxes the same as other road users when the cars at home i'm still entitled to use them...... Maybe we should get every driver obeying the law first as well before they get a car on the road, or retest old duffers every year ..... typical tory.... pick on the line of least resistance

[FrogNog]

Tora, your inflammatory tone seems ridiculous for this discussion. Outlaws? Really?
Anyway, I live in a county where cycling is encouraged and at the same time, poorly provided for.
A 1 metre wide strip along the gutter is dangerous. Wider pavements with defined cycle strips are what is needed.
And what of rural and semi rural cyclists who take their lives into their hands every time they pedal on a road that's narrow, overgrown and has a stupendously stupid 60mph speed limit?
Is it any wonder cyclists break the motoring laws? I'm sure most of them would prefer to live.

[campbellking]

Yes, we should force all cyclists to obey all aspects of highway law, just like all car users, especially those driving down the road I walk beside to work every week day who persist in making illegal right turns into the side street which only has 3 signs up prohibiting this action, and I'm not fed up at all trying to dodge them...

[mushroom25]

//Outlaws? Really? //

yesterday outside st pancras station I got skittled by a lycra clad madman on a bike who saw it as his right to run a red light while pedestrians were crossing. he got off, called me a "f*cking idiot" and rode off over my bag.

presumably that's ok in your book is it frognog?

[FrogNog]

No it's not mushroom but it doesn't make him an outlaw. If he'd have nicked your bag he'd be an outlaw.
I'm not saying everyone shouldn't obey the rules, but fgs keep some perspective.

[youngmafbog]

From the Oxford:

Outlaw: A person who has broken the law, especially one who remains at large or is a fugitive

Seems to fit the person mushroom has described perfectly.

And yes, I agree TTT, we need to see more prosecutions of these sort. I drive a car, ride a motorbike and cycle so I see it from all sides. There is an element in the cycling fraternity who see it as 'their right' to trample over every motoring law and to hell with the consequences to others.

[Booldawg]

Would be interest to compare three statistics here;
1) number of pedestrians/motorists killed by cyclists
2) number of cyclists killed by motorists due to fault of cyclist
3) number of cyclists killed by motorists due to fault of motorist.

[ToraToraTora]

frogno: cycling is indeed to be encouraged and as a cyclist myself I think we have done untold damage in the last 20 or so years by splashing paint on pavements and calling them cycle lanes and painting a strip down the left for cyclists. All unnecessary and very dangerous. In my youth we learnt to ride on the road properly and knew how to deal with junctions and roundabaouts. These days cyclying is full of "cyclists" who have no idea how to ride a bike, that's the problem we should be addressing. Outlaws is the correct term for persistant law breakers, look it up.

[Booldawg]

Tora - that's because they're all on Strava!

[mushroom25]

//fgs keep some perspective. //

perhaps I should have said that to my IT department when I got a "please explain" for the damaged laptop power supply from my run-over bag. instead I just got a bill.

[Cloverjo]

I'm wondering how £5 per head is spent on cycling and walking. If it's cycle lanes, then an awful lot of money has been wasted. In my area, there are lots of tiny bits of so-called cycle lanes that are only 5 metres long, dotted about along the main road, similar to what TTT has said. Ridiculous waste of money.
I think we should encourage people to cycle more. If they didn't, there'd be even more cars on the road. I think most of them obey the law, although, when I'm in London I notice that the Lycra clad ones take more risks.

[Old_Geezer]

Never one to insist folk obey laws as an automaton simply because someone has made a law, we are all responsible for our own actions; but one should obey sensible laws there to guide you into doing the right thing. So yes, clearly authorities should clamp down on cycling on pedestrian pavements, and stopping at stop indicators such as red traffic lights.

They also ought not be encouraging them to jump queues at the lights by supplying painted 'boxes' at the front, forcing the poor old driver to try to get past them a second time.

But the BBC article seems to be about something called a "cycling revolution". That sounds to me to be an irresponsible promise to encourage more folk to engage in this dangerous activity to go out in public on dangerous roads, with little protection and next to no profile with which to be easily seen. And by wasting more of our tax to do so.

This is the exact opposite of what any intelligent authority should be doing. They should be encouraging folk not to indulge in dangerous unnecessary activity. And goes once more to show how difficult it is to get intelligent folk into positions where they make the decisions.

[ToraToraTora]

I think it's the other way around cleverjo, I'd say most of them do not obey the law. At least 90% of cyclists I see are on the pavement and mean the pavement not a psuedo "cycle lane" and I haven't seen one stop for a red light for weeks. You can tell a proper cyclist by their gear selection and seat height.

[ChillDoubt]

Apologies for tedious repetition, but I have to show this again. It's just over 2 minutes long in order to avoid the accusation by TTT et al of not stopping at red lights.
I stop at the lights and even wave thanks to the lad in the boy racer type car for giving me enough room.
What punishment would be appropriate TTT for the guy who almost ran me over?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rHg_Ei2XaM

[ChillDoubt]

As for 90% I believe you're gilding the lily a tad there.
Only 1 in 10 cyclists you see uses the road? It's the total opposite round these parts, the only ones using the pavement are generally females, kids or the idiots who can't be bothered to spend a quid to get a set of lights(yes, you can get a full set in Poundland).

[SlackAlice]

I agree they shouldn't do it, but we have adequate laws to cover this. What's missing is the enforcement.

Same as stupid drivers sometimes called 'Amber Gamblers' who fail to stop at traffic lights. Some get caught but most do not.

[ChillDoubt]

There is an element in the cycling fraternity who see it as 'their right' to trample over every motoring law and to hell with the consequences to others.
----------------------
As indeed there is in the motoring fraternity:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-144977/Speeding-tickets-soar-million.html

Thankfully, the human cost of cyclists transgressing is miniscule in comparison to the death and destruction caused by motorists.